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Scott B
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bullet Topic: Nunsense - orchestration
    Posted: 11/08/10 at 3:55pm
For those that have done this show ...  the orchestration shown in the contract is as follows:
Piano/Conductor's Score
Synthesizer
Reed (Flute, Clarinet, Alto Saxophone)
Percussion

My original thoughts were to use piano, percussion and bass.  Of course there is not bass part listed.  I don't want someone to just go in and "wing it."  Am I missing something ... is there a way to utilize a bass or is it just not needed?

As for the synthesizer ... is that a true synthesizer or just "keyboard" of some type.

Thanks for your help.

BTW ... I'm pretty sure we won't get any of the reed parts.
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TonyDi
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bullet Posted: 11/09/10 at 7:16am
Having done this show three or four times - well Nunsense I three times and Nunsense II once, the orchestration is kind of thin. However, piano, SYNTHESIZER which is capable of playing numerous instruments, plus the Reed part (if you can find a good one) and percussion is about it.  It can be made to sound as full or as thin as you want.  It depends upon the capabilities of your players.  We have normally used only about 4 parts INCLUDING a BASS player.  Why there isn't one shown on the orchestration I have no clue. We had one....but he was VERY good and may have just culled it from the full piano/conductor score - can't remember...it's been about 20 years ago.  For the third time we did it, I sequenced the whole show and ran it from my computer via MIDI capability with added sound effects and so forth (there aren't many - just a couple). Plus I was able to transpose Hubert's last number into a bit lower key since it was just a tad too high for our Hubert.  It was interesting to run it from MIDI files - especially Amnesia's song "So you want to be a Nun"!! THAT was tricky but I was able to break the song into seven parts and had to be really on the ball.  But it worked VERY well.
 
Of course it's nice if you can afford to pay musicians - which is why I decided to sequence it the last time.  And I added a LOT of embellishments to the instrumentation, rewriting some parts, adding some strings which weren't scored and so on.  As well, and as I recall, the Percussion part again was pretty thin and basic so when I sequenced that, I added a whole LOT of stuff including tympani when it was appropriate which I don't think is even scored. I'd have to go back and look at the original score again.
 
Anyway the synthesizer is there to play some things that aren't necessarily used in the parts - namely strings I believe and perhaps other odd instruments....church organ and so forth.  So just using a "keyboard" is fine IF they will play the instrumentation and sounds required of the score and that aren't separate parts.  Actually the less the better because it is pretty well written musically if you have a good pianist and drummer...can be done that way. I loved having a fuller orchestra playing lots of things that are there and things that aren't there too. But it comes from knowing what sounds right and fills the voids musically when instrumentation is thin and you can't afford to hire lots of musicians.  Midi worked for me for several shows besides Nunsense, including You're A Good Man Charlie Brown and The Secret Garden, The Fantasticks and others.
 
Good luck. It's such a fun show.  BUT also if you get the piano/conductor score you may be able to cull the PARTS from that one score - that's what I did to sequence it all.  And it works but it's not easy rescoring everything - but it's doable.
 
Have fun
 
TonyDi
 
If you'd like to hear a few sequences, I can create some MP3's for you and pass them along to hear how it sounds sequenced and fuller orchestrations.  And they make GREAT rehearsal midis so cast can have the music right from the start to rehearse with. That's mostly why I love them.  GREAT to have REAL LIVE musicians but who can afford them anymore!! We hardly cannot.


Edited by TonyDi - 11/09/10 at 7:20am
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Scott B
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bullet Posted: 11/09/10 at 9:25pm
Now THAT'S a lot to digest. 

All I know for sure at this moment is that we don't have anyone that has a clue regarding the synthesizer.  The best we can do is a Clavinova and an older one at that.

We have our accompanist locked in, so I'm going to assume that you wouldn't be using both an accompanist AND the MIDI sequencing?

Glad to hear about the score being strong enough for piano and percussion because there's a good chance that's all we would have.

I swear ... one of these days I'm going to do a show with MIDI sequencing ... if for no other reason than because I've been told I can't.  LOL

As for the bass part ... I didn't think about getting it from the conductor's score.  The bass player I have in mind is quite good and with a little time with the music he could probably figure it out.  What's nice is he can play electric or upright bass.

Thanks for you insight ... it's much appreciated.

P.S.  The show is actually Nunsense: the Mega Musical.  It's pretty much the same as the original, but with a couple of songs added.
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TonyDi
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bullet Posted: 11/10/10 at 7:14am
Originally posted by Scott B

Now THAT'S a lot to digest. 

All I know for sure at this moment is that we don't have anyone that has a clue regarding the synthesizer.  The best we can do is a Clavinova and an older one at that.

We have our accompanist locked in, so I'm going to assume that you wouldn't be using both an accompanist AND the MIDI sequencing?

Glad to hear about the score being strong enough for piano and percussion because there's a good chance that's all we would have.

I swear ... one of these days I'm going to do a show with MIDI sequencing ... if for no other reason than because I've been told I can't.  LOL

As for the bass part ... I didn't think about getting it from the conductor's score.  The bass player I have in mind is quite good and with a little time with the music he could probably figure it out.  What's nice is he can play electric or upright bass.

Thanks for you insight ... it's much appreciated.

P.S.  The show is actually Nunsense: the Mega Musical.  It's pretty much the same as the original, but with a couple of songs added.
 
Hey Scott,
 
Well as for the SYNTHESIZER - perhaps you can find someone who has one around or can rent one from someplace.  Basically you need it for things like ORGAN, STRINGS and other off-list parts but it's not the end of the world if you don't have one. Clavinova - if it's the typical Yamaha Clavinova it might have a few "sounds" that are keyboard related (e.g. the church organ and maybe strings) but the models vary somewhat I think. So you might get lucky there.
 
As for the Midi Sequences, you CAN use them to supplement the live instruments being played but it's really quite a workout for the live players to keep time with the pre-sequenced music. Basically sequences are usually pretty specifically point-perfect with whatever time signatures are set since it's computerized and doesn't vary. You can always control tempos with Midi's but at the programming level. Once set and played back, it runs at whatever tempo has been chosen. So for live players to keep up with - it's definitely a workout.  But it HAS been done VERY successfully - even with Broadway touring shows.  Last time I saw Phantom touring, they had like 6 keyboards and percussionists - and that was it. NO full orchestra. Easier to transport keyboards and 6 people than hire local union musicians and hope for quality and consistency in the orchestration.  But it has been done and can work nicely with enough practice and lead time from your live musicians.
 
If your pianist is good enough and can really rock the piano - embellish and fill in with percussion - it can sound full and robust. Naturally the more instrumentation you could get the better it would sound but I've seen it done VERY minimally and it sounds ok. NOT MY favorite but it can work with minimum number of players.  First time we did it, we used a pianist, bass player, drummer and I was on synth filling the strings and other instruments that we simply couldn't afford much less get.
 
You ought to TRY using MIDI sometime. It's nice to have FULL ORCHESTRA right from the start, for rehearsals all the way through. You have to sometimes be creative and pretty aware of how to run sequences through the computer to sound systems AND then make it work with things like VAMPS which you sometimes have to just TIME really well and adjust to. Singers sometimes like it because it's like Karaoke - in that the music is in their hands from the beginning and never ever changes, slows down or speeds up (unless you program it to do that) and so many other advantages. Other performers do NOT like it because they cannot mess up and expect a Midi sequence can follow them and get them back on track so they HAVE to know their music perfectly - and that frightens some performers.  But to have full orchestrations, with an orchestra that doesn't go home at 10:30, that's always there when you need it, is never late, doesn't have to be FED or pampered so they get along, doesn't have any ego at all, and is never going to let you down unless the power goes off - which then it wouldn't matter because you'd have no lights either - then it's hard to beat in those regards.  But also it's way nice to have a REAL live orchestra to work with too.  But it would be fun to try it to see how you liked it.
 
Now for the NUNSENSE - The Mega Musical - that's not something I have heard. Perhaps I need to check it out.  I mean Goggin has rehashed that thing to death now I think - there are what....about 6 versions or so? One, Two, The Jamboree, Nuncrackers, Meshuganuns, The Mega Musical and perhaps more.  It's been fun to watch but my word - it is still hard to beat the original version.  Time to let this rest and move on Dan - to something new. He has the capability to write good stuff so he needs to give up Nunsense - although it's made him a small fortune I'd say. Couple the shows with the greeting cards which are still sold, and it's out there all the time.  And while it's fun, it's time to move on to other things I think.
 
Anyway hope you have fun doing it. It's really great fun to be sure.  If I can help in any way don't hesitate to contact me.
 
Best
 
TonyDi
 
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bullet Posted: 11/10/10 at 3:26pm
I sent you an email, but I would be interested in the cost.  Do they have to go through a synthesizer or can they be CDs?  I know we won't use them for the performances, but I would definitely like to see if it's in our budget to have a CD for rehearsal purposes.

Thanks again for all the information.
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bullet Posted: 11/15/10 at 7:16am
Originally posted by Scott B

I sent you an email, but I would be interested in the cost.  Do they have to go through a synthesizer or can they be CDs?  I know we won't use them for the performances, but I would definitely like to see if it's in our budget to have a CD for rehearsal purposes.

Thanks again for all the information.
Hi Scott,
 
To follow up with this post - these files CAN be run through a computer that has the capability to play MIDI files OR I can convert them to MP3's and put them on CD for you if you'd like.  Either way. Or if you have a midi capable keyboard/synth that can accept CD's - midi files can run through that as well.  But the easiest naturally is the CD that will play in any CD player - and that's with MP3's.  The rest we'll discuss privately.
 
TonyDi
 
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