Youth- Same leads over and over?
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Directing
Forum Discription: For questions about handling shows, actors, crew, board members, children ...or do we repeat ourselves?
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4776
Printed Date: 11/23/24 at 3:07pm
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Topic: Youth- Same leads over and over?
Posted By: JoyExcellence
Subject: Youth- Same leads over and over?
Date Posted: 8/29/10 at 10:17pm
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How do you feel about having an enormously gifted actress/actor getting the lead over and over. I am talking about a kid who is an obvious stand out... "gets" the part, has comedic genius timing, sings beautifully and just has the "it" factor. Consider that people thought she was cast in this role before auditions even began... even though she wasn't!
Having a hard time casting a show because the leading lady has been the lead in the past 2 musicals. She's right for the role, but the buzz and backtalk of the other students/community has already started.
The lead boy is the same way. But boys are hard to come by, so it's not as difficult.
There are lots of talented girls. And some that *could* do the role... just not as well as this young lady.
Give another student a shot, or cast her again?!?
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Replies:
Posted By: Thudster
Date Posted: 8/30/10 at 3:11pm
Tough call, but I think if she's the best one for the part, then she should have the part. I understand all the drama that could cause, but it's about casting, right? Back in my high school days the lead roles kept going to the same people, but that's just the way it went -- they were the ones who could do it.
I'm in the Wilder Pageant now, and we've had the same person playing Pa Ingalls for the past 25 years. But he's the one who's perfect for the part. I play the Reverend, and that's the part I'm good at. It's the way things go.
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 8/30/10 at 8:16pm
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If you have already cast her go with it, if not cast someone else. As I believe 'we are in the business of manufacturing memories'.
There is always a heap of untapped talent & shrinking violets lurking inthe shadows, waiting for the limelight & well worth the time & effort in being discovered.
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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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Posted By: mrlloyd23
Date Posted: 9/02/10 at 4:00pm
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You have to go with the actor you think is right for the role. I wouldn't let the community dictate your choice. You have to follow your instinct. However, sometimes its fun to challenge a traditional leading lady with more of a character part.
I had a student who was blessed with the "it" factor and she got the leads in several plays: Emily in Our Town, Rosie in Bye Bye Birdie, Betty in White Christmas, Viola in 12th Night, but when we did the Gershwin musical Crazy For You she played the ditzy folly girl Patsy. She created this character that was geniunely one of the funniest people I'd ever seen on stage. After playing tht part she became a much stronger actor.
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Posted By: KEB54
Date Posted: 9/03/10 at 2:49pm
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Base it on auditions and let everyone know that is how it is.
My wife directs High School Theatre. We overhear comments all the time and we let them know that nothing is pre-cast and it is all based on their audition. If someone thinks their daughter is better for the part, she has to show it at auditions. She should select and PRACTICE the proper audition song, and she should get a perusal script and become very familiar with it. It doesn't hurt to get some dance lessons as well.
My wife now has an annual audition class for high school students. Its a couple hours long and they focus on four areas: 1) song; 2) dance; 3) acting, and; 4) audition etiquette.
In addition to herself, she has the musical’s music director, choreographer there as instructors for the class. She also brings in a local university Theatre major to do their “Professional” audition (about 2 minutes).
She makes it pretty fun for the kids. It really shows at auditions, who took the class.
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KEB
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Posted By: Spectrum
Date Posted: 9/04/10 at 9:06am
I somewhat agree with Joe; unless it is already cast, I'd give someone else a try, especially if they are in the lower grade levels - if they are acceptable in the role, of course. At the high school level of theatre, one needs to develop talent on the way up, and expose EVERYBODY to the theatre experience. Repeatedly favoring the same people for leading roles kills that experience for most "budding actors and actresses" and hurts the program's possibilities in the future. In school, where EDUCATION is the motive, you shouldn't sacrifice the education and encouragement of many for one slightly better performance. NOBODY is that irreplaceable, and the following years will be all the better for it. Besides, it looks bad (stale and "cliquey") to your audiences to continually have the same leads, no matter what level of theatre it is, and to me, it indicates the director has no real skill, or courage, or imagination.
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Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Posted By: bnk01
Date Posted: 9/09/10 at 10:42am
I'm with Spectrum here - if the goal is education, don't just teach the best kid. And for a community theatre? It's more than just the best possible show you can do - it's about the community. Hey, it'd be a better show if we just hired professional actors in the first place, right? (And I realize I'm opening up a can of worms with that comment...) There are other considerations than who's going to be best in the role, though... who's going to benefit most from the role? Who will develop a love for the theatre and share it beyond this production - maybe carry it with them for life? Who will discover a new talent, or rise above where they thought they could be?
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 9/09/10 at 8:37pm
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This article from the AACT kinowledge base may help;-
Audition the actor not the part http://www.aact.org/documents/AUD1.pdf - http://www.aact.org/documents/AUD1.pdf
Which to mind "it's what we are all about" in comeatres & especaily in schools. To produce, encourge, uncover & bring about by allowing them to 'Be the 'Best that they can be'.
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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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Posted By: Theatermama
Date Posted: 9/26/10 at 11:07am
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I must say I agree with mrlloyd. The "it" actor can't always get the lead in youth shows and whatever role they get they will be fabulous and it allows some other kids to shine. Having 2 "it" actors in my house and one latebloomer I can tell you from experience. The latebloomer when given the opportunity always comes through but is rarely chosen to try and the "it" actors almost always get the lead but on the times a director used them in a supporting role, that ended up being one of their favorite roles because it was much more about character development.
My oldest got the chance to be both the lead and a character actor in the same show. The HS did both versions of the Odd Couple. We are boy short in our hs too so he got the role of Felix in the male version which he did flawlessly but he also got the role of the Hispanic Lover Boy (can't remember his name) in the female version and though he was only in 2 scenes - literally when they opened the door before he ever opened his mouth the audience laughed for over a minute - the scene had to stay frozen until composure came back. He did his own costume and had his hair curled into a long afro (some young lady spent hours with a tiny curling iron and a lot of hair spray), he put on a Tom Seleck mustache and had a baby blue bell bottomed leisure suit with an unbuttoned ruffled shirt and glued on chest hair and sunglasses and ankleboots. He assumed this sexy pose in his very tall 6'2" body leaning against the door frame with roses held above his head and his partner was this shorter stockier actor that just made my son look so much taller. He said it was his favorite role to date and he has had some amazing roles. I think it made him a better actor.
I work with a lot of kids and the directors that give leads to new and upcoming actors are usually never sorry and those kids work so very very hard. Sometimes talent does have to dictate who you choose but when talent abounds, spread the wealth.
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Posted By: MusicManD
Date Posted: 3/21/11 at 12:02pm
This is why I am hesitant to cast freshmen and sophomores as leads, regardless of how good they may be. First, I feel better using students I know a little bit more about- upperclassmen. Second, if they do get a lead early, I've seen a lot of ego problems develop. Finally, I've been pleasantly surprised to see older kids blossom when I didn't just use the "obvious" underclassman in the role.
I was "the other guy" in high school- the one who did get to play a lot of fun character roles, but never the lead- while one of my friends played the Pharaoh in "Joseph" sophomore year, Jim in "Big River" junior year, and Billy in "Anything Goes."
I have a freshman girl this year who is a great singer, but I also had some strong seniors who hadn't gotten to shine much. I cast them as leads, and put the freshman girl in the chorus. Lights came on, and the freshman girl's eyes went wide and she faded into the shadows. I've worked with her more this year, and I think next year she'll be ready for bigger things- I'm already looking at her for the Sour Kangaroo in "Seussical" her sophomore year and maybe even "Beauty and the Beast" her senior year.
On the other side of things, I had very few boys audition for this year's musical (four, in fact... so I had to go grab a few more), so I ended up casting a freshman boy in a lead. He almost completely broke down under the pressure, and I don't want to do that again. And yet... next year, we're doing "Seussical" and I have an upcoming freshman whose personality and voice would make for a perfect Cat in the Hat- the role that a lot of productions skimp on... But I also know that the actor playing the Cat has to be mature and organized to manage all the entrances, props, costumes, accents, songs, and lines the character has.
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens at auditions.
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Posted By: Theatermama
Date Posted: 3/21/11 at 4:36pm
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Does the freshman in question have any stage experience? My son was the Cat in the Hat in a mixed age youth theater up through age 16 at age 12 and he was phenominal in the role because it was the right one for him but he had been on stage since he was 5. I think you have to look at their stage history as well, I have worked with inexperienced adults that freeze from stage fright and 3 year olds that could do Broadway - no fear what so ever. I too like to give actors chances, I don't always pick the one people thought I would pick and I have never been sorry.
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Posted By: MusicManD
Date Posted: 3/21/11 at 5:53pm
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I don't think he has had any stage experience, although I'm not really sure. We have a vibrant community theatre in our community, but I don't think their family has been involved. His older sister is one of my super talented juniors, though... strangely enough, I'm looking at her for JoJo. :)
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Posted By: NDTENOR
Date Posted: 3/23/11 at 11:24pm
If we are talking community theater or professional production I think we are talking one set of standards. But if we are talking "educational" like a high school or college production we are talking something else.
My personal feeling is that a community theater or professional production should always strive to cast the best person in the role. Period.
Colleges and high schools should strive to maximize the potential of students and I think sometimes that means getting the best opportunities available for each student to develop their best potential.
If I may use a sports analogy.... there are 11 players on a soccer field.... sometimes the "best" player does not play in his or her "favorite" position because of the "good" of the team. But they are on the field and playing ( if the Coach has half a brain ) . They are all " stars" and have a good time. And learn to work together.
In High School and College.... actors should be pretty much the same.
But .... to be clear.... I DON'T agree with this in community theater ot professional theater.
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Posted By: Theatermama
Date Posted: 3/24/11 at 8:16am
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I definitely think a professional production needs to cast the best person for the role but with a community theater it depends on the mission of that theater. We have one community theater who believes in giving everyone that auditions a part and will even add roles to do so and though they try to organize them into best fit it does not always mean best person in any one position. The audience who sees this, is made aware of their purpose and accepts performances accordingly.
I am part of a community theater whose mission is to be a spring board for new thespians as well as a place for seasoned thespians to work. As a director, I try to find the best person for the role but if I can I like to give someone with potential a chance to shine. I often work with young people. With my last production, it would have been very easy to just have gone with the college actors only but I decided to double cast in high school actors and I chose an actor between 2 that usually doesn't get the chance. She doesn't sing quite as well but is a stronger actor. Generally the singing is so impressive from the other girl, this one loses out and I decided to reverse that and I totally wasn't sorry - she was wonderful.
Schools do need to give more students the chance to shine and I have been quite glad when my sons who usually always get cast in leads are given supporting roles - it has strengthened them as actors and they tend to remember those roles the most.
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Posted By: NDTENOR
Date Posted: 3/24/11 at 12:25pm
Theatermama:
I think that if a community theater has a CLEARLY STATED agenda of an educational component were the selection of roles are not entirely based upon talent and ability that is quite acceptable. But again, there should be a clear understanding of your biases by all that audition for your shows. Then persons can choose to audition or not audition at their own discretion.
Personally, if I became aware of this bias in a community theater group I was considering auditioning for it would be more likely that I would decide not to audition.
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Posted By: Rorgg
Date Posted: 3/25/11 at 12:37pm
Hey, it's community theatre. The objective should be assumed to be to promote the theatre arts in the community. That's a pretty wide objective, and it includes putting on excellent productions, encouraging participation, encouraging attendance, and education.
Most of your CT groups are going to be 501(c)3 orgs, so they'll have a stated purpose in their filings. It's public record, go look it up if it's really so important.
A group has to balance all those things. All of them will be promoted to some extent by putting on the best possible cast, straight up, but in the longterm, there are greater gains to be made on some front by putting in some effort to encourage participation by new faces. While I haven't had to deal with this directly as a director, I've been around when it came up for consideration, and they decided for the good of the company to put up a newer, lesser-known woman in a lead role than the woman who had been the lead in their previous two. It's important that from the audition they had confidence that the newer woman could handle the part, and in the longterm, it worked out well.
In fact, it doubly worked out in that the other actress was brought in as the AD and picked up some new skills that she would not have otherwise obtained.
I've actually given it some thought as an actor -- I actually turned down a CT leading role offered after a backout. One of my considerations was that I had been a lead and large principal in their two previous productions and very much wanted the lead in their following production, but wondered about the effect of prominent parts in 4 consecutive shows (ended up in a supporting role in the upcoming one -- good casting on their part).
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Posted By: NDTENOR
Date Posted: 3/26/11 at 3:03pm
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So I guess the next time I see a CT audition notice which says : "All roles open " or " no roles have been pre-cast" I guess I need to go and look up their 501 (C) document to find out what they really mean by that.
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Posted By: Rorgg
Date Posted: 3/29/11 at 11:40am
If you're really that concerned that they may have goals that influence their casting decision beyond 100% artistic merit that will preclude you from working with them?
Yes.
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Posted By: sguti39
Date Posted: 3/29/11 at 2:56pm
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I was one of those girls in high school who always got cast as the lead. After many compliants our director allowed the drama class to cast the show for Cinderella Wore Combat Boots. I was cast as one the 3 fairy godmothers which in this version of Cinderella was not a large role. So being the actress that I was, I got together with my other "mothers", and we created show stopping characters and stole the show. After the show when we went to mingle with the crowd, they all wanted to meet the fairy god-mothers...not cinderella, the prince or the stepsisters.
This was a hard lessons for my peers that it is not the size of the role that counts, but how you build your character.
Some of my favorites performances have been people who have NO...NADA lines. I saw a production of Urinetown, where one of the ensemble portrayed a blind character. She had the glasses, the walking stick, and danced in different directions from the other ensemble members. They would go and get her when she strayed from the group-she was hilarious. Another was the perennial angry stage hand who didn't cast (at least that is what his T-shirt said). He won a regional award for his role in INTO the WOODs.
I say take this as an opportunity to work with those individuals on their character development.
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S.G.
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Posted By: Theatermama
Date Posted: 3/29/11 at 4:53pm
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squi - some of my favorite actors are never cast in the lead but they do very memorable roles. I added a dancing Woodstock to You're a Good Man Charlie Brown who never spoke a word but had a very big part and lots of stage time and was called a "poignant mime" by the reviewer.
ND - what you do is look at the show being cast and ask yourself these things: Do you like the show they are doing and are interested in auditioning? Do you think there is a role you are even likely to get based on the parts being cast? Does your schedule work with the rehearsal schedule? Do you have a history with this director and you like how they direct? (if not skip it or listen to other's experience if you want) If all of these questions are answered satisfactorily then sign up to audition and hope they think you are as good as you think you are.
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Posted By: MusicManD
Date Posted: 3/29/11 at 7:41pm
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^^ A bit off topic, but is it standard practice in your area to publicize the rehearsal schedule? There have been a lot of shows I've decided against auditioning for simply because I knew I was busy and supposed the rehearsal schedule would conflict with work. If they publicized "Rehearsals Monday, Thursday, Saturday" or whatever, I would have had more information to base a decision on.
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Posted By: MusicManD
Date Posted: 3/29/11 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by sguti39
Some of my favorites performances have been people who have NO...NADA lines. I saw a production of Urinetown, where one of the ensemble portrayed a blind character. She had the glasses, the walking stick, and danced in different directions from the other ensemble members. They would go and get her when she strayed from the group-she was hilarious. Another was the perennial angry stage hand who didn't cast (at least that is what his T-shirt said). He won a regional award for his role in INTO the WOODs.
I say take this as an opportunity to work with those individuals on their character development. |
One of my favorite characters from this last show we did was a freshman girl. She had no lines originally, but from the very first rehearsal, she was ALIVE. I ended up giving her one line, and without the hindrance of the script, she was just fantastic. By the actual production, most of the other cast members had stepped their game up to her level and the audience never knew the magic that little girl had. You can bet I'll be putting larger parts on her shoulders in the future.
Another girl that I enjoyed in the spring play was the girl who had the lead in the musical. In the play, she played a smaller role that didn't even touch the stage until the second act. Yet she came out and played it HUGE (a villain the polar opposite of her innocent lead in the musical). I was incredibly impressed, and the audience loved it.
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Posted By: Theatermama
Date Posted: 3/29/11 at 8:22pm
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MMD - Depends on the director and the theater as to whether the rehearsal schedule is posted. Usually it will be listed on the audition sheet and they usually ask you when you are available so I do think they try to work around schedules if they can. I personally always post mine and I let them know that on such and such date we begin act runs and everyone is called at that point forward but up until that point I am relatively flexible before rehearsals begin or given notice for last minute changes by Friday for the next week.
I have found if you ask they will tell you. However, many of our directors actually waste actors time expecting them to come to all rehearsals for the entire time - I totally do not believe in that. Time is very valuable to me and I truly try not to waste it for others until it can't be helped, but I am also very good at scheduling and estimating how much time I will need for each scene to get it ready. I reserve the right to change it as needed and I send a schedule for each week at the end of the previous week. I will give them the entire thing up front so if there are any conflicts they forgot about, they can tell me immediately.
I don't usually have the luxury to just fire someone for missing - it is the nature of volunteer CT (no one to replace with standing by) but I have been known to replace at least 1 actor per show for various reasons when needed and I usually have to call in favors from friends. This last show I didn't lose anyone but it was touch and go with one of them.
I really want to act but I fear that my unavailablity on M and W nights will stop that, it doesn't stop me from doing shows, I work around it because i have to.
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Posted By: Rorgg
Date Posted: 3/31/11 at 3:16pm
Funny story. I've got a little list of roles that I'd just love to play and would go the extra distance for (not unusual, probably). Last summer, I noticed the night before the audition that one of those shows was coming up only... oh, 35-40 minutes from home. I guess I'd just missed it because I was busy with the show I was in only about 2 weeks from open. Overnight, I hastily got all my stuff together -- they posted their audition sheet online and wanted it filled out when you came in. So I did, found my headshot pack, got my resume printed, and worked to reasonably good proficiency the song they wanted to hear for this part.
Got to the audition the next day, forked over my paperwork, and they gave me back a little calendar. "Mark any conflicts down...." I was going to miss something like 12 of the first 13 rehearsals. They were starting essentially immediately, and were rehearsing exactly opposite the show I was about to open.
I kind of chuckled, marked them down, and then went in and auditioned, knowing the whole time that my audition was NOT going to get a callback, simply due to my schedule.
It was good to know. Probably the only time I've auditioned for a role I really wanted and then did NOT eagerly anticipate the phone ringing.
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Posted By: JoyExcellence
Date Posted: 3/31/11 at 4:12pm
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It's funny, because I started this whole dicussion back in August when I held auditions. As for casting, I ended up casting my "old faithful" as the supporting/comedic role, and a newcomer as the leading title role. I had a feeling this young girl could take on this part and knock it out of the park, but I was hesitant to cast her because I had never cast someone new in a lead role before. Not only did she nail the part, she exceeded all expectations. Many patrons thought the all youth cast (8-18) did better than any adult cast they've seen perform this show. The seasoned actress brought the house down in the funniest role she's ever done, and brought a new angle to her character. She also supported our newer actress and helped her learn the ways of the theatre.
That said, I love that community theatre opens doors, but personally... as a director, I would never give a part to someone that I thought might not be able to handle the load of a leading character. I feel like part of my job is to sense new talent, then foster and nurture it througout the rehearsals. I push... really hard.... and I spend a lot of time individually with each actor because I think actors, especially youth, are able to go much further than they ever imagined. I never tell them how to do it, but I will ask 1000 questions to get them there. Then I'll jump up and down when they nail it... or when they "get" it.
I think while all young people deserve a chance, there are clearly actors that have more raw, natural talent than others. When you put your obviously gifted actors in the leading roles (even if they are new actors), everyone else in the cast is forced to step up their game. I am constantly telling the cast they need to match so-and-so's (leads) energy.... even if they are 3rd chorus girl from the left.
In the end, I try to cast the best person for the part. Earlier this year, I was unsure about casting a new-comer as a leading lady, and I felt tempted to put my seasoned actress as the lead. But I could see the spark in my newer girl, and she had an incredible singing voice... and after call backs, I realized she just embodied the role better, so I took a chance. And I am so glad I did! Still, if she didn't have that incredible voice, it would have been hard to put her in a title role where the lead sings 5 solos. Her acting was not as strong at auditions, but she did have that charisma... so I figured I could develop the actress.
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Posted By: PaulyWally
Date Posted: 4/02/11 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by JoyExcellence
so I took a chance. And I am so glad I did! |
I'm glad you followed your gut and took a chance, and that it was a positive experience for you.
One thing I wanted to add, is how we look at theatre in terms of education. In your first post, you said "students." If that's who you are directing, then I am of the opinion that a good portion of your casting should be based on which roles offer the greatest educational experiences for certain actors. Many times, the lead role does not fit this criteria for the most gifted actor. For example, leading characters are already developed quite a bit in the script. A gifted actor doesn't have to work hard to develop that character. It could be a greater educational experience to give them a supporting character, and challenge them to develop that character beyond what is in the script.
Naturally, this isn't usually a conducive approach in professional theatre. But I believe it should be heavily considered in schools... and considered in CT at least a little bit.
You also talked about energy, and I've found that many lead roles are not "anchor" roles either. So there's another thing to think about.
In the end, knowing the script and the characters thoroughly is our greatest asset during casting.
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