Tams-Witmark
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Play Suggestions
Forum Discription: Need help finding a show that's right for your theater? Ask here.
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3557
Printed Date: 11/22/24 at 5:06am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tams-Witmark
Posted By: tech_director
Subject: Tams-Witmark
Date Posted: 10/25/08 at 12:05pm
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Does Tams-Witmark have an e-mail? I need to contact them about a problem with some stuff the sent me.
Thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 10/25/08 at 4:58pm
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Their website is http://www.tams-witmark.com/ you can probably get a contact from there |
Posted By: tech_director
Date Posted: 10/27/08 at 7:51am
| Yea, for some reason they don't have e-mail addresses listed on their website, I guess they don't do e-mail. |
Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 10/27/08 at 7:55am
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Good luck
------------- Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.." |
Posted By: jaytee060
Date Posted: 10/27/08 at 6:14pm
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TAMS-WITMARK and problems ? WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED THAT ? ------------- "REMEMBER ME IN LIGHT" |
Posted By: tech_director
Date Posted: 10/27/08 at 10:26pm
Yea, that's what I've been hearing a lot of. I ordered a few perusal copies of some scripts that I was intrested in for my CT's play reading committe. (We're deciding our 2009-2010 season.) They arrived fine, however in the box was a bill for $46.50, when the cost of shipping was only $21.75? I'm not sure how they figure this. Insurance maybe?
Maybe one of you guys who has done this before could help me out, do I owe them this? How to I send it to them? I think it is quite a lot to pay $46.50 to ship them to me then another $21.75 to send them back!
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 10/28/08 at 6:12am
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Possibly? But I it would be for the labour in posting & packaging them, which is probably fair enough, as I'm sure they are not in the good Samaritan industries.
From experience I ordered a shows scripts & scores from them, quite a few years back now. Yet instead of sending them by post, they freight forwarded them to us, via an International freight Company. Which we had to pay just under $1 000, before we could pick them up. yet it only cost us less than $100 to post them back by airmail?
I found dealing with them difficult in as much as they gave the impression, that they thought Perth [australia] was actually a suburb of NY. Attempting to deal with them on the phone, left me with the impression, I was in a time warp.
That was a long time ago back in early 2000, I would imagine now they use the net, so they may have an email contact before this decade ends?  ------------- [western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 10/28/08 at 8:16pm
| Tams-Witmark is certainly the resource for all those big famous musicals from the "Golden Age" ... but they're just horrible to work with ... and, yes, the shipping and handling and insurance, etc. etc. etc. always get bulked up from their original quote to you. |
Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 10/29/08 at 12:00am
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I agree they must have been the last one on the block, to discover the net & I'm not sure they have not come to grips with it yet?
With my only phone conversation, I imaged they were still using pedal telephones. Because you could hear the old PABX plugs being pulled out & inserted on the line. Also it seems all the V P's of each department are inter related, so it must be still a family company. Which is rather quaint - not suggesting they are 'Hillbillies'!
 But for one moment, I had a a fleeting image. I was actually dealing with a company, in downtown Dogpatch- Is that still an off Broadway suburb of NY ?I feel it may take a few eons for the Company, to graduate from using the two old tin cans & a piece of string systems?
So I wouldn't hold my breath or try hanging by your thumbs, while waiting for any changes. - But I could be wrong, As this is previously stated completely without prejudice of course!  ------------- [western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
Posted By: tech_director
Date Posted: 11/21/08 at 7:50am
| Okay so the invoice that they send out with your purusal copies, where do you send that too? Can I just stick it in the box? Do I need to mail it? |
Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 11/21/08 at 3:29pm
Don't get me started ... they're the ones that won't let me rent the keyboard part for Bye, Bye Birdie without renting the ENTIRE orchestration. They allow you to order OTHER individual books ... just not the keyboard. 
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Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 11/21/08 at 5:10pm
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And then there was the time I was directing "Hello Dolly". There are two orchestrations, one for your classic Carol Channing type Dolly and one for your Barbara S. version... I knew in advance that I wanted the Barbara version and requested it. I figured there might be some up charge. Come to find out (with the bill) that the Carol version comes with the package. The Barbara is rented as an ADDITON to the carol with a full orchestration charge.. And whats with Sides.. Who does sides any more. ------------- Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.." |
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 11/21/08 at 8:06pm
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Oh, how I hate those sides! It takes two read through rehearsals with kids for them to even understand wha the heck they're about! The only reason ANYBODY ever used sides was because entire scripts were too expensive to have transcribed (when they were hand done). With computers and printers, you would think that was no longer an issue. |
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 11/22/08 at 1:54am
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You can at least submit a request about rights for a show online, but apparently they only reply by snail mail.
I requested info on rights for a show the other day and got back a ream of paper in the mail. I found it interesting that the royalties would be based on the capacity of our theater with "the consideration that all of the seats will not be filled." So, if all of our seats are filled, do we owe more? What if all of our seats are filled only on, say, Friday night? I guess I'll need to go wade through the fine print. So, once again, how do you go about comparing ticket prices to royalties to find what works for you? Just keep submitting proposals with different ticket prices and having them send you out a new packet of paper each time? |
Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 11/22/08 at 2:40am
I'd just stick the invoice back in the box & return it, let them work it out!
Not sure how they do business in 'Dogpatch'?
 {The scripts I received, were obviously the shows originals, typed on a old manual typewriter, along with all the spelling mistakes!]
 Watch out jayzehr or they might hit you with post & packing charges?  ------------- [western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 11/22/08 at 8:44am
Frankly, you just have to tell the truth. Musical royalties are high - much much higher than straight plays. But there IS a reason for it...you get more ticket buyers. I would imagine if you kept submitting proposals with different seat/ticket amounts, they would know you were trying to 'cheat' and not grant a license. Just grit your teeth, own up to the truth, and work with the budget you are then allowed. There is a reason that so many amateur musicals look as if they're done on a shoestring - they ARE! |
Posted By: Theatrefolk
Date Posted: 11/22/08 at 10:03am
There are other reasons, too. For one, there are many more hands in the royalty pie for a musical. There's the composer, the lyricist, the book writer, and in many cases the original director, choreographer, producer, etc. Also, publishing a musical is much more involved than publishing a straight play. We recently published http://www.ShoutTheMusical.com - our first musical and it took at least 20x the time and 50x the expense to get everything ready. ------------- Theatrefolk: Scripts for High Schools, Middle Schools, and Elementary Schools http://www.theatrefolk.com - http://www.theatrefolk.com |
Posted By: Nyria
Date Posted: 12/10/08 at 5:48pm
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The rest of the bill is probably for renting the perusal scripts - I don't think they just lend them to you - you have to pay.
I love that other people find them as bothersome to work with as I did -- unless I absolutly HAVE TO work with them I won't! ------------- NYRIA |
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 12/11/08 at 2:15pm
Sorry, I guess I missed this post when you wrote it. I'm not trying to cheat. I'm trying to figure out how to price tickets for a musical for the theater we're using. I've never done a musical before. I wanted to compare what royalties would be at say, $18 a ticket versus $25 a ticket or $30 a ticket or whatever. |
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 12/11/08 at 6:06pm
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I would suggest working out your total budget in other areas (sets, rentals, insurance, costumes, etc.); tab on an APPROXIMATE amount for royalties; divide by the number of seats you can expect to sell. That's your ticket price. Then if you find out each ticket has to cost 387.91, you can either adjust your budget accordingly ... or do "The Odd Couple" again LOL. Good luck! The first one is always scary - but then once you've done it, you're hooked! |
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 1/02/09 at 4:44pm
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So after looking at everything I decided that I'm not going to try a musical--for 2009 at least. I just got another packet of stuff from Tams-WItmark with a contract and letter, etc. saying we sent you a quote, if you're going to do the show we need a $200 deposit, etc.
Do I need to send them back a letter or email telling them I'm not going to do the show? |
Posted By: dexter74656
Date Posted: 1/07/09 at 7:05pm
| This thread makes my head spin.... I'm looking at doing Charlie Brown for 2010 season... I'm not looking forward to dealings Tams after reading the experiences here! |
Posted By: 75director
Date Posted: 1/07/09 at 7:45pm
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Ugghhh I hate when we end up picking a Tams-Witmark show. I'll add my venting to this thread only because it's fresh in my mind.
We're doing "Hello Dolly" right now. I called them after we cast a real singer in the role of Dolly to request the transposed score -- which I agree with the earlier post that it's dumb that you MUST rent both scores. So they were supposed to fax me an invoice that day. The fax never came. Instead about a week later we get an invoice in the mail for it.
Fine I say to myself, maybe they forgot the fax number or something. So the next day we send them a check (this is before Christmas), because lord forbid they take credit cards or do any processesing online like the other major companies. Well we still hadn't received the new scores. The check had cleared our bank already. So I called today and said, "where's our stuff". After sitting on hold for a few minutes they get back on the line and say "it will go out today." Sounded to me like, unless I would have called they wouldn't have bothered sending it for a while yet. I'm glad our Dolly is pro because she's not going to have much time with the score in the new keys.
Okay, done with my rant.
Oh one more thing, I hate how they nickle and dime you to death. Oh, you want to keep the orchestra books for your whole run? Well that's another couple of hundred dollars please. Grrrrrr. Give me MTI, R&H and Theatrical Rights Worldwide any day at least they're much clearer with their billing and royalty quotes!!
Now, I'm really done with my rant.
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Posted By: Amos Hart
Date Posted: 3/21/09 at 5:06pm
Nope. Sides were the way all Broadway shows were done -- in the 1920s. Actors were given only their own lines so that nobody could steal the script.
Tams needs to acknowledge the millenium.
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Posted By: teejaystudio
Date Posted: 8/28/09 at 3:59pm
The contact info will cost you another 3 month rental on whatever they sent you and you'll have to pay to have the stuff sent back and to get replacements for what you really need and if that extends the length of time you'll need to produce the show then you'll have to call (another 3 month rental) and get them to sell you an extension. And by the way, they never make mistakes. But I'm not bitter.... |
Posted By: teejaystudio
Date Posted: 8/28/09 at 4:02pm
We just did You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown and let's just say that our Board voted never to use them again. $4,500 (PLUS) for the royalties and rental for a 8 show run. But they have good shows. Someone said you could negotiate, but I tried and just got laughed at.... They'll probably charge me for posting this.... CRAP! |
Posted By: teejaystudio
Date Posted: 8/28/09 at 4:05pm
| 75director, Go ahead and tell us how you really feel.... |
Posted By: lagazza
Date Posted: 8/29/09 at 10:07pm
| Said teejaystudio...$4,500 (PLUS) for the royalties and rental for a 8 show run. You should feel lucky. Based on what I received, an 8 show Run of Baker Street would be - wait for it - $15,560.00. |
Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 8/30/09 at 2:26pm
| After Bye Bye Birdie ... I'm done. They just nickel and dime the crap out of you. You can't get a keyboard part unless you order the entire orchestration. What a load of crap. We're lucky to have 4 musicians ... what the hell do they think we need the synth. for anyway. |
Posted By: teejaystudio
Date Posted: 8/30/09 at 6:36pm
Well, if you charge $1,000 a ticket - you're golden! WOW. That is really sad.  We have a 89 seat theater and can't charge more than $20 and we had no sell outs. |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/30/09 at 9:57pm
'TW' is becoming a part of our local [occerism] techie slang, to be TW'd for generaly being stuffed about, by any inept suppliers! As in those TW's, have done it again! {Generaly it is short for "TFW's"]
I have vowed never to deal with them. ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: JohnnyOneNote
Date Posted: 9/21/09 at 1:10pm
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Lucily they have no shows I would ever want to produce. What will happen is the authors and agents will get the idea and start pulling the shows and giving them to MTI sooner or later.
Does anyone remember when you could only get GodSpell from Maximus! Oh MY LORD! They were HORRIBLE!
Poor Tams is out in the dark ages and will probably stay there forever. I am not holding my breath for them to change any time soon.
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Posted By: teejaystudio
Date Posted: 9/23/09 at 9:56am
Well, I guess they just TW'd themselves! We're writing not using them into our bylaws. |