Cutting a straight line with the wrong tool
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Set Design and Construction
Forum Discription: Post your questions or suggestions about designing or building a set here.
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3554
Printed Date: 11/23/24 at 4:47pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Cutting a straight line with the wrong tool
Posted By: thrillwill
Subject: Cutting a straight line with the wrong tool
Date Posted: 10/23/08 at 10:42am
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First off let me just say that one should always use the right tool for the right job. - BUT - A table saw is really expensive for the school I am helping out (some set pieces for a Nativity show) and all I have in my tool arsenal for ripping 4 x 8 sheets of 1/4 ply is the venerable jig saw. OK so all on it's own it's impossible to rip an 8' cut with a jig saw. This I know both from studies and from experience. I tried clamping a 1x3 in a straight line to 'brace' the jig saw with but in flight the saw managed to actually work it's way under the brace = wiggly line. At this point I am just cutting my pieces an 1/8" wider than necessary and then forcing the nephew to sand it down flush with the frame. But I wonder if anyone else has found a work around for this situation? ------------- Will Leamon http://www.classiccityarts.com |
Replies:
Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 10/23/08 at 10:52am
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As you've discovered, clamping doesn't work because the material sags in the middle, allowing the saw's guide to sneak under the brace.
Instead, snap a chalk line and then use a 1x3 and screw it in place every 16" inches or so, straightening it against the line as you go. This will not only give you a firmer brace to guide against, but also has the advantage of preventing the plywood from sagging. Filling in the tiny screw holes afterwards (if even necessary) takes far less time than trying to sand the whole thing flush. ------------- "None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone |
Posted By: thrillwill
Date Posted: 10/23/08 at 11:00am
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So would you fill those holes with standard putty or something else?
------------- Will Leamon http://www.classiccityarts.com |
Posted By: dboris
Date Posted: 10/23/08 at 12:36pm
| You also might want to think about investing in a circular saw. You can get one for well under $100 and although not as good as a table saw for straight cuts, it's better then the jigsaw. |
Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 10/24/08 at 1:03am
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Check out the 'Redeye' Circular saws. They are mainly GMC products, made in China - so they are as cheap as chips these days.
http://www.gmcompany.com.au/index.cfm?module=products&pid=502 - http://www.gmcompany.com.au/index.cfm?module=products&pid=502
Also there are a heap of cheap laser products for the DYI handy market, which would help. http://www.laserglow.com/?gclid=CNisu42Iv5YCFSAUagodJVmczQ - http://www.laserglow.com/?gclid=CNisu42Iv5YCFSAUagodJVmczQ ------------- [western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
Posted By: Spectrum
Date Posted: 10/24/08 at 11:53am
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Harbor Freight Tools (available online or mail order if not near you) usually has a circular saw on sale in the $25 - $40 range. They are usually made by Chicago Electric or Skil so they're not great but fairly reliable and FAR better than a jig saw for ripping plywood.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=6188 - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=6188 And NO, I don't have any connections with Harbor Freight. They just have a good array of inexpensive tools. ------------- Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional. |
Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 10/24/08 at 3:52pm
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I agree investing in a circular saw would be better (and faster), but the above bracing method works just as well for that tool also.
As for filling in the holes, it's entirely up to you. Especially for a set piece that will only be viewed from a distance. Personally, I'm a big fan of painter's caulk because it's fast, cheap and cleans up easily. ------------- "None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone |
Posted By: thrillwill
Date Posted: 10/27/08 at 1:01pm
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Hey all - just wanted to post an update on the quest for a straight cut... Yes a circular saw in the arsenal would be very nice. Especially one with a lazer sight - My new powered mitre box has one and I love it. But for this conversation I think a circular saw would just be the same mistake only faster. The nephew and I tried Topper's trick with screwing the brace down every 16" but sadly hit the same snag - the saw worked it's way under the brace. This time though the brace had enough force to stop the saw in its tracks which let me know my line was drifting. I think this weekend we'll try it again but reduce the gap to 10" per screw and see if that does the trick. Thanks for all your help and suggestions everybody - and keep'em coming :) Will. ------------- Will Leamon http://www.classiccityarts.com |
Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 10/27/08 at 3:29pm
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Sorry to hear about the snag. I forgot to ask what thickness of plywood you were using. If it's thinner than 1/2 inch, then yes you should space the screws closer together.
My bad. ------------- "None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone |
Posted By: flyweed
Date Posted: 11/03/08 at 11:24pm
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AAAHHHH...someone said harbor freight and Chicago Electric. stay away from both. Cheap, shoddily made, garbage. If you are going to buy tools you want to last, buy good ones.....in this case you DO get what you pay for. Dan |
Posted By: Spectrum
Date Posted: 11/04/08 at 7:07am
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“AAAHHHH...someone said harbor freight and Chicago Electric. stay away from both. Cheap, shoddily made, garbage. If you are going to buy tools you want to last, buy good ones.....in this case you DO get what you pay for.” AGAIN with the equipment snobbery and this stupid notion that if it’s less expensive (be it tools, or sound equipment, or lighting, etc.) it’s not worth your consideration. Just like everything out there, there are heavy duty, professional grade tools for people “in the business” and there are tools designed more for the “weekend warrior.” And there is the out-and-out junk. NO MANUFACTURER IS EXCLUSIVELY IN Matching the USE with the tool is more prudent than blindly buying a brand name, regardless of intended use. I often say people who buy over-priced equipment because of the NAME (and not the actual design/construction of the piece and how well it would work with the intended use) are an advertiser’s dream. Sure, purchasing the “Rolls Royce” version of a tool would be nice, but terribly inappropriate for the person looking to merely “go-kart.” So what’s the difference between a $25.00 Chicago Electric circular saw and a $320.00 Makita professional grade saw? Plenty, but most of it is totally wasted on a guy with a limited budget, cutting 1/8 inch luan to build flats. And the longer life expected from the more expensive tool is never a sure thing (and since when has ANY tool lasted for twenty years, trouble free with the abuse at a community theatre?) A far smarter approach is to educate yourself on what to look for in a tool, and how well it is designed for the use intended. Get on the Internet and check out how well a manufacturer stands behind their product, steering clear of the “only buy this because everything else is junk” comments from prejudiced equipment snobs. Then go pick the tool up, hold it in your hands, look it over, read the specs, consider the warranty, ------------- Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional. |
Posted By: dboris
Date Posted: 11/04/08 at 12:50pm
Are you putting anything under plywood for support? In my theatre I can hand the plywood off the edge of the stage so that the straight edge is over the stage, but the cut line is off of it. In this way you have no worry of sag.
You could achieve the same thing with a couple 2x4s. Find two nice straight 2x4s put one under the plywood up on edge and the other on top of it so the plywood is sandwiched between them. You can then screw the two together to hold everything is place. Putting the bottom one up on edge should give you enough clearence so that the jig saw blade doesn't hit the floor underneath (be sure to check it first). If you want to avoid the holes you could even use 12's 2x4s and screw them together beyond the edges of the piece you are cutting.
Dan
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Posted By: dboris
Date Posted: 11/04/08 at 12:58pm
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I totally agree with Spectrum's comments. I do a lot of set construction and a do carpentry as a hobby and I am a big fan of Harbour Freight. I am fortune enough to live within driving distance of one of thier stores and this is made better by that fact that it's in an econmic re-development zone so I pay 1/2 normal sales tax.
There are certain items there that I wouldn't buy, you can just feel that they are cheap and not worth buying, but pretty much everything I have bought I have been happy with. In some cases thier items are so inexpensive that I don't care if they only last a year or two. It's cheaper to buy a new one every couple years then to but a more expensive item to start with. I purchased a pneumatic nail gun there a while back for under $20.00. It works great and for that price I don't care if I have to replace it in a couple years.
Dan
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Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 11/04/08 at 3:22pm
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Likewise, I needed a hammer drill for a project (drilling into concrete) and since I thought it was going to be one-time thing, I purchased an VERY inexpensive off-brand store model from Sears, thinking "what the heck -- I only need it once, who cares if it falls apart afterwards?."
Eight years later, the thing is still going strong and I've been finding dozens of different uses for it since. In fact, I can't wait until it finally quits on me because I've been so careless with it, it's pretty messed up and I plan to buy a spiffy new one. ------------- "None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone |
Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 11/05/08 at 1:14am
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Topper go & treat yourself to a new fangled drill!
[But frame the old one on the wall - it might come in handy, when the new falls apart]
 Will - instead of messing about with a jigsaw, just use a good hand ripsaw. You can control the cut better & at least it should be straighter!
{Just remember 'To measure twice & cut once! }  ------------- [western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
Posted By: thrillwill
Date Posted: 6/26/09 at 9:00am
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This topic is way old at this point but I do want to post an update. I found a solution that works for me and I wanted to share it. It's a laminate trim bit for my router. One of my set books made brief mention of it for lauan covered flats and now I'm in love. In brief you simply cut the plywood with the jigsaw - wavy lines and all. Just make sure the wood is a just a little bigger than necessary (I gun for an 8th of an inch). When it's cut I then clamp the piece to my work table and run the laminate trim bit around the edges. A little sanding later and it's the straightest line I've ever seen! If anyone needs more detail let me know and I'll gladly share. P.s. as part of the tool debate I predominantly use Skil equipment and have never regretted it. My mitre saw is a Task Force and it's never let me down either. None of them were very expensive. ------------- Will Leamon http://www.classiccityarts.com |
Posted By: David McCall
Date Posted: 6/26/09 at 10:08am
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I tend to buy Craftsman for no good reason except that my dad bought Craftsman. Lately I have been using their 19.2 volt tools. I have the hammer drill, and the trim saw (it has a laser). I tried the stapler, but didn't like it and took it back. They have a laminate trimmer too, but I have not tried it. I have used the Straight Cut with success, but you do need to support.
One very obvious solution that most of us overlook is to have the store cut it for you. Home Depot has a wonderful panel-saw and they are happy to make the cuts for you. It can make the stuff much easier to carry too.
I like the laminate trimmer idea. Unfortunately we build in 4' multiples so we use the whole sheet. It might be a great tool for cutting out windows though. ------------- David M |
Posted By: thrillwill
Date Posted: 6/26/09 at 1:58pm
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I too use the whole sheet for flats but will still pass the trim bit around it just to gaurantee everything is flush and straight. Sometime you get a corner that sticks out a bit and makes joining flats a pain in the but. It's great for window cuts and tabletops especially! ------------- Will Leamon http://www.classiccityarts.com |
Posted By: bmiller025
Date Posted: 6/27/09 at 11:51am
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When I make a non-standard sized flat, I ensure that the frame of the flat which supports the facing material is accurate, and then glue and staple the facing material to the frame. To make a perfect, smooth edge to the flat, use a router. Use a trim bit. This is where it is worth spending more money. Get a trim bit with three cutting edges, instead of the usual two if you can. This is also by far the best way to make window and door flats. Drill a hole large enough for the router bit in the facing material in the part that will be open, and route the facing material right to the edge of the opening. Someone asked how to fill screw and staple holes in the flats. Use drywall joint compound. It is a lot cheaper than wood putty, and can be sanded perfectly smooth far more easily. ------------- http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm |
Posted By: Knightheiders
Date Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:07pm
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I realize this is an old thread but I see the last post was just a month or so ago. Anyway, here is my two cents.
If you have a circular saw, the lines still end up a little uneven unless you make a jig. The jig I am talking about is one that a theater prop director showed me once. Take a straight 1x3 board and glue it to the edge of a piece of 1/4th inch plywood. Let the glue dry completely then take your circular saw and cut the plywood with the edge of the saw guard against the 1x3. This gives you a straight edge exactly where the blade will cut to line up on your project. Simply clamp the jig to the project with the edge of the plywood right on your line you need cut and the blade will follow. Also, the blade will not be able to work it's way under the jig because the flat surface of the guard slides right along the plywood.
Hope this helps someone out. ------------- Gee Sauce Core Iced East Mice Have Your! |
Posted By: thrillwill
Date Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:52pm
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I am totally going to try that. Think you could scare up some pictures for clarity? ------------- Will Leamon http://www.classiccityarts.com |
Posted By: Knightheiders
Date Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:20pm
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Give me a week or so as I am currently working on making a new one. Moved to Cleveland and my old one got left behind. Until the pictures are up though, I will try to give a little clarity.
Glue the 1x3 laying down flat, so the 3 inch side has the glue on it. Make sure it is straight though before you start. Just glue the 1x3 on the edge of a sheet of plywood preferrably 1/4th inch to keep the most blade available to cut your finish piece.
The bottom of your circular saw has a flat piece of metal with the blade coming through. I call that the guard but I guess it could be the depth setting and angle face plate depending on how you look at it. When your glue has dried you just push the saw up against the side of the 1x3 with the guard or face plate flat on the plywood. When you cut all the way across, length depends on how big you made it, it will have the 1x3 on top of the plywood with about 2 to 3 inches of plywood sticking out the one side. The blade will be the exact width away from the 1x3 as your edge of the plywood since you just cut it with that width. Basically this makes your jig. The jig can then be clamped at any angle to any piece of plywood you need to cut out. Just clamp the piece down with the clamp on top of the 1x3 and then run your saw the length of the piece giving you a nice straight cut.
I hope that helps clarify a little. I am new at the forums but how do I go about posting a picture when I get the chance? ------------- Gee Sauce Core Iced East Mice Have Your! |
Posted By: Knightheiders
Date Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:27pm
Here is a picture I found online. It is the best one I can come up with at the time being. I hope it posts ok. This is basically the same concept just a little different than what I described but you get the point. If the pic doesn't come through, just type in circular saw plywood jig in google and go to images. There are alot of them out there. ------------- Gee Sauce Core Iced East Mice Have Your! |