Set Design and Construction: Small buildings on stage wagons...help!

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Small buildings on stage wagons...help!

Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Set Design and Construction
Forum Discription: Post your questions or suggestions about designing or building a set here.
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3475
Printed Date: 11/24/24 at 12:46pm
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Topic: Small buildings on stage wagons...help!

Posted By: Kim L.
Subject: Small buildings on stage wagons...help!
Date Posted: 9/19/08 at 3:07pm

I am a home school mom (Technical Director) designing my set for our upcoming musical, Crazy for You. This is my third set I am designing and constructing...so I have little experience but have learned a lot. I need three small buildings to represent the street scene of Deadrock, AZ. I can figure out how to construct two buildings. But, the third (the Saloon) needs to be a double-sided or dual purpose building such that one side is the exterior of the saloon. And, when it is rotated becomes a lateral wall of the inside of the saloon (does that make sense??). The upstage and stage r walls of the inside of the saloon will be other walls that I need to roll in. I saw all of this on a photo on the internet. My questions...How do I construct walls that are about 8-10ft. high on a stage wagon without bracing? I have many flats in my stock right now. But, when I have used them as a fixed set, I have had the luxury of bracing them to death. Another question...when using a double-sided wall, it can't be a regular flat, right? Are there plans for a double sided flat? My flats are all soft. Another question...what are the best casters to buy? We had a small stage wagon in our last production where we just picked up casters from Home Depot. The wheels were always giving us trouble during production. They seemed to have a mind of their own! Another question...for the lateral walls not attached to the stage wagon, how hard is it to roll those onstage? I have read about a technique (can't think of the name right now) where the flat is affixed to a sort of skateboard looking thing (that has casters) and when ready to roll, the flat is tipped onto the skakeboard thing (wich is attached to the flat) that acts as a fulcum with wheels. Please forgive my description..its the best I can do without trying to dig through my Backstage Dictionary for the proper term.

I would love to attach pics of my inspiration photo to get feedback but don't know how to attach on this forum. If anyone is inclined to help me, I could send pics to them via email. Thanks sooooo much.

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Kim

Replies:

Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 9/19/08 at 8:01pm

I don't know the show?

Is this the set;-

http://www.trinity.edu/sgilliam/SLG/CRAZYFORYOU/crazy.html - http://www.trinity.edu/sgilliam/SLG/CRAZYFORYOU/crazy.html

When using Castor's on a truck [waggon], especially for straight on/off moves, use fixed Castor's;-

http://www.penn-elcom.com/Default.asp?MC=1109030&GC=23&SS=&RC=2&Fl1=&Fl2=&Fl3 - http://www.penn-elcom.com/Default.asp?MC=1109030&GC=23&SS=&RC=2&Fl1=&Fl2=&Fl3 =

with roller bearings. Not the cheap ones which use a bolt & bush to hold the wheal on.

These will be easier, silent & more control of movement.

You may know the "skateboard prop" as a 'lift jack'? We term them here 'lift braces'. They are primarily a 'French Brace', with hinged parts & a Castor underneath the base board. So when you step on the end of the brace, it is a fulcrum lift of the Flat, pivoted by the Castor. Then diagonal hinged brace slides over a wooden block, on the base board & jams against the block. Holding the brace in place. Which in turn, along with other lift braces, the set of flats is suspended a few inches off the deck & can be easily moved. Stepping back on the board will release the diagonal brace & the flats can be lowered to the deck again.

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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

Posted By: vickifrank
Date Posted: 9/20/08 at 8:39am

Have you considered using a scrim? When you light one side it's the outside of the saloon and play is downstage of that. When you now light the people inside, the walls disappear and you see the inside. This can be done by painting scrim/printing scrim as the outside walls or can be done by projection of the outside walls. Printed scrims are less expensive than people think.

You also can go to all projection by projecting on the scrim (Project the outside walls, play the scene downstage of the walls; and then project the interior walls and still play the scene downstage the walls).

With either of these methods you can still use a wagon, or simply hang the scrim.

Here are two articles talking about projection and also printing on scrim:

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com/white_papers/wp_printing_scrim.html - http://www.studio-productions-inc.com/white_papers/wp_printing_scrim.html

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com/white_papers/wp_projection_scrim.html - http://www.studio-productions-inc.com/white_papers/wp_projection_scrim.html

Several printed scrims and plain scrims for rent are on this page:

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com/rental_order.html - http://www.studio-productions-inc.com/rental_order.html

Contact me if you need any more information.

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_____________

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com
1-800-359-2964

The theater scrim people

Posted By: bmiller025
Date Posted: 9/29/08 at 1:24am

Hi. I am going to leave the how-to discussion to others. I did want to throw in suggestions regarding casters. The ones at Home Depot are very low quality, and will always give you the results you have seen so far. It is worth looking for a local supplier of higher quality ones, because in the end, the hassle of the casters not doing what they are supposed to, and the noise and other problems they cause make them a lot more expensive than their retail price.

I can't tell you which casters to get though. A good industrial supplier has a wide range of casters. Even their cheapest ones are likely to work much better than what you can find at Home Depot, and won't be too much more expensive. I suggest asking them which ones they would recommend, after you tell them your budget constraints, and describing what they are going to be used for. The casters may end up costing a bit more than you are used to, but good casters can last for years, if properly taken care of. Most of us don't have the luxury of trying a few before buying a whole bunch of them, but that may be a good way to proceed. Many places where I work have standardized their casters. The casters have not been all purchased at the same time, and some are less functional as others as they get older, but they all work very well.

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http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm

Posted By: Design3D
Date Posted: 10/19/08 at 1:27am

Sounds like it's time to upgrade to "hollywood" or "studio" flats. These are flats framed with 1x3 ON EDGE. Unlike the typical "broadway" canvas flat which is framed with 1x3 FLAT and joined by cornerstones and keystones, Studio Flats are built with the 1x3 on edge and faced with 1/8" or 1/4" Luan (very thin, smooth plywood). This type of flat will be ~3" thick (rather than ~1" thick) and because it is covered in a hard material will be much more structurally sound, i.e. need less bracing.

As for the bracing: Consider building something like this:
http://www.carbon.utah.gov/north_spring/Castlegate/knightssaloon.jpg
If it's a saloon, why not include the covered porch on the front? That would become the bracing and the whole structure would be self-supporting. If space is low, consider making the porch pretty shallow. You only need to make the whole thing about 2' deep total to get the look and support you need.

As for the side walls, why not make them part of the wagon? Consider using hinges to attach each side wall to the back edges of the center wall. When the unit is facing DS (with the porch on the DS side) the two side walls are "folded in" so they are parallel to the center wall. Rotate the unit 180 degrees (the porch is now US - and we are inside the saloon) and then "open" the unit up by swinging one side wall out SR and one out SL to form a simple box set. The side walls will need casters on the DS edges to take the weight of the walls, but with the upstage edges hinged to the center wall, the wagon will take the weight on the upstage sides. Think of it like this: fold a piece of paper into thirds, like you would fold a letter. Now stand the piece of paper on edge and adjust the side flaps to create a little box set. Now you can fold the two side flaps so the whole thing is pretty much flat.

I hope this helps and good luck with your show.

Posted By: JillLizzy
Date Posted: 11/06/08 at 9:48am

hi, i'm currently designing a set for the music man and we are doing a similar effect with the paroo house. we are using a 4x4x8 platform with wheels on the bottom. the front of the house is set back on the platform to represent a front porch. it is constructed of hollow core doors (3 feet wide each), braced by 2x4s, and they will be painted accordingly (interior/exterior) the house will be turned by 2 stage hands as the actor "enters" the house. wheels can be tricky but if you get the right rotating wheels (think desk chair) that can be locked into place. our show is next week and i can let you know how this effect works out. there is a youtube clip showing this same effect under the music man search key. i hope some of this helps.