A big ole can 'o worms
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Other Topics
Forum Discription: For everything else
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3364
Printed Date: 11/24/24 at 3:05pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: A big ole can 'o worms
Posted By: theatre junkie
Subject: A big ole can 'o worms
Date Posted: 8/19/08 at 6:27pm
|
I found sittng on one of my mental shelves, what looks to be a big ole can-o-worms. Please use the link below to read an article that appeared last fall in the major newspaper in my area.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2620&u_sid=10163703 - http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2620&u_sid=10163703
When I read this article about the mega-budget musicals that area high schools are doing, it brought up a lot of questions for me.
Is this happening in other areas of the country?
Is this a good thing as it is giving huge support to the arts that, traditionally we have only seen for sports at the high school level?
By doing this are we raising a theatre-entitlement generation?
Is this detrimental to Community Theatre as it takes away crowds and money from CT not to mention it may deter people from CT as we do not have this type of budget for our shows?
Or will it help CT by increasing a want of live theatre to not only participate in but to go and see?
I would love to here thoughts. perspectives, etc. Just in case you are wondering after reading this article, all of these high schools have multiple community theatres and college theatres nearby.
Discuss
I am always
Theatre Junkie
|
Replies:
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 8/19/08 at 11:41pm
|
While I don't know what you mean by a "theater-entitlement generation" my gut reaction to that is that anyone associating "theater" and "entitlement" is going to be rapidly disabused of the notion very quickly in life.
|
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 8/19/08 at 11:47pm
|
And as far as big budget musicals go, we don't have the money, the facilities, the expertise or the actors to stage them. There are three high schools in the area that put on big musicals each year, and three colleges and universities, one with a large musical theater program. If someone can scrape together forty grand to put on a high school musical, I guess I say more power to them.
|
Posted By: pdavis69
Date Posted: 8/20/08 at 7:42am
I have seen a group pour major money into a show that still stank, and a high school cast put on a show for nearly nothing that was fantastic. It took me a long time to realize it, but money isn't everything. A CT doesn't need 40 grand to put on a show the audience and cast will love.
-------------
Patrick L. Davis
Fort Findlay Playhouse
|
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 8/20/08 at 10:08am
whew - would I LOVE to have that kind of budget! The most I was ever given was 25k for a production of "Mame" - mostly spent on costumes. We have to do "big" musicals with (usually) less than 12k.
More power to these kids who have the luck to be in such privileged circumstances. I wish I had been!
|
Posted By: imamember
Date Posted: 8/20/08 at 10:25am
We did a production of Seussical that TANKED!!!!! Spent just over $9,000 on it and it only pulled in about $4,500. We use the community theatre stage and they charge 2 or 3 bucks a ticket. Well to drive people to the show we told the newspaper that the first Sunday was a kids showand tickets would drop from $15 to $5. of course that sold out, but the kicker was the paper misprinted and said both Sunday's were that price. So two shows didn't even pay for themselves and EVERYBODY came to those shows. Got maybe 50 or 60 other nights if that.
The board tries to save face and say that at least people expereinced theatre and they'll be back for other shows.....but seriously...not in this economy!
It was a trainwreck I could write a book about!
|
Posted By: KEB54
Date Posted: 8/20/08 at 1:48pm
|
I think it is fantastic! You're going to hook a lot of kids on theatre and make even more appreciative audience members. I think that can do nothing but help CTs.
Boy! For those kids that stick around after HS and go into the work force, this is a tremendous opportunity for them to get that kind of exposure that they otherwise wouldn't get. Jimmy-the-bread-truck-driver, who in another community wouldn't know what theatre is, may turn out to be your CTs top set builder or lighting board operator because of his HS experience.
Also, if the community has a better understanding of what it takes to put on a production it may make fund-raising easier for the CT. Former HS students may open their wallet when they understand the cost involved.
I see lots of opportunities. I think your CT should strategize around this and use it to your advantage.
-------------
KEB
|
Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 8/21/08 at 5:23am
|
Cor blimey! We in CT are lucky to have more than a few thousand to do a musical. I doubt any HS spend more than a few hundred $, there again our schools are pushing it to even raise a platform, as a stage to use.
This is one of the reasons why the 'Mouse' refuses them to allow them to produce the 'High School Musical', because don't have the theatre facilities on a HS campus. What the mouse fails to understand our High Schools cover only the 11 to 15 year olds in general.
I think in this State there is only a handful of Colleges, that have any theatre facilities of note.
I think the most I have ever spent on a musical in comeatre, is $30 000 [AUD]. $8 000 was for Royalty fees, & $11 000 to install an Air conditioner system in the venue.
We rarely hire in sets, lighting, props or costumes. Most community theatres here make do with what they have got. Or make up what they require & achieve more with a lot less.
It completely amuses me when theatre groups, especially in the UK, spend around twenty thousand Pounds on a Pantomime, which is about $40 000 here. I don't know too many around here who would spend that on their yearly budgets?
-------------
[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
|
Posted By: TonyDi
Date Posted: 8/21/08 at 7:27am
|
I'm about to blow this thread up with what I have to tell you.....perhaps. The last two years, I've been involved in doing the makeup work for two schools in Alabama. One was in a TINY town called ARAB (accent on the first A as in A-rab). They did Into The Woods. As a result of THAT gig, I got connected to the other school in Huntsville where I did the beast makeup for their production of Beauty And The Beast. First of all, the school in ARAB did an incredible job with Sondheim - difficult for high school students. Their budget was $56,000 dollars plus. Now they are so small the high school's theater department is also connected to the local community theater and supported by the same people who support the CT in budget and the work they do. INCREDIBLY involved community of parents, friends, supporters and students all engaged in doing the best that can be done. At the risk of sounding effusive in my praise, they did an incredibly good job with the show from an acting/singing/staging/production value point of view. I was most impressed with those kids.
Secondly, the school in Huntsville, doing BatB, their budget was also in excess of $50,000. Now there are several (like 8 I think) high schools in Huntsville - a much larger town. BUT again, they have incredible community, parental and sponsor support for their shows. I haven't asked the director what he spent THIS year, but it had to be high because they did Les Miserables - complete with turntable, flying things (bridge), barricade, and everything. So I know it had to be costly. BUT AGAIN THIS group was even more amazing than the group in Arab. For kids at 14 - 17 or 18 years old, I could NOT believe how good they were. Amazingly talented to be viewed as stereotypically poor southern areas.
But to the point of all this - in BOTH CASES - with the high budgets they had available, I do NOT think it detracted from anything the community theater groups were doing in either place because of the support system of the community and community theater groups, AND nurtured by both guys who were the teachers/directors of these school theater groups. What I DID see it doing was TRAINING these young people in the BEST possible way by highly qualifed, energetic, enthusiastic, caring, generous men who by the way, ARE TEACHERS FIRST and foremost, and who wanted to give the kids who cared to do the work, the best, most professional, most complete and most supportive program they could give - thus generating the next wave of talented, PREPARED, and qualified young actors, technicians and artists for both the community AND those whose intent is was to go on to careers - some of whom, having been through either program at either HS, HAVE made names for themselves "in the biz" - so to speak, and are successful working actors and actresses.
SO IT CAN be done. It's always done well with money. Is money necessary for great theater to be done? NO!!! BUT no matter what you think, we are seeing a more and more demanding public who is, more and more, coming to expect the flash and glitz from theater in general - be it high school or community, to semi-professional all the way up to Broadway. Is that FAIR? Hardly - some CT's or high schools simply don't have that kind of resource. But don't shoot down those high schools that DO have that support mechanism in place to do the huge shows that require huge budgets....ESPECIALLY when they're executing such incredibly good, solid and successful teaching programs as well. That's not fair either necessarily to think that they're just trying to outdo one another or wasting the resources. From what I have seen in the last three years at these two schools, the kids coming out of those programs will be the best of what will come to community theaters and the profession as a result.
TonyDi
-------------
"Almost famous"
|
Posted By: theatre junkie
Date Posted: 8/21/08 at 3:35pm
|
Golly gee-whiz TonyDi!
I didn't see anybody in this thread shooting down the schools that are doing the big budget musicals, nor did anyone accuse them of trying to outdo each other or wasting resources. Most of the posts in this thread are quite positive about this subject. All I was asking for is discussion and opinions (good, bad or indifferent) about this this topic. That's why in my initial post I asked both positive and negative perspective questions. I am wondering have you had other people 'attack' these shows to you at another time?
This is what I love about this forum. Lots of different perspectives and opinions about all topics theatre.
I am,
Theatre Junkie
|
Posted By: tdsands
Date Posted: 8/22/08 at 10:16am
In
-------------
tdsands @ NRT
|
Posted By: tdsands
Date Posted: 8/22/08 at 10:33am
|
Don't know what happened but I'll try again!! In my opinion, I can't see where any High school production is going to take away from any CT production unless they are performing the same night.
Our audiences in general come to be entertained. That happens with dedication, hard work, and quality people. (As we all know).
I think it's great that these kids get to experience large budget, large cast productions. It's something they will always remember.
As for the money, if they don't hurt the school budget and can break even, I don't see a problem.
-------------
tdsands @ NRT
|
Posted By: Aimee
Date Posted: 8/23/08 at 1:31pm
|
As I work at a high school, those dollar amounts to me are unreal. I am basically given no money and told to work miracles with it. While in some ways it woudl be nice to have that type of budget, I like the way we do things. Most of the kids I get have never picked up a hammer or a screw driver, granted by the time they leave, they are teaching the younger ones the ropes and ca handle the tools with confidence. My job ends is to (most of the time) introduce theater to them. college, possible community and professional theater are where the big busgets are.
We did just get a new auditorium so it has changed alot of things. In the past most of our sets were facade type, now we are lookingat doing "Noises Off" which is quite a different type of set all together....wonder how much money they wil give me to build it....I'd be thrilled with $2,000.
With bigger schools comes more money, if they are able to do it, I guess, more power to them!
Any interst in theater is a plus!
-------------
Aimee
|
Posted By: whitebat
Date Posted: 8/23/08 at 9:27pm
|
I'll say our CT is having a hard time competing with the HS in production values. I've no idea what HS has for budget, not very high I'd guess. Our CT maybe has total assets of $10K. Maybe. I think a comparison of recent shows might say something...
HS: Beauty & the Beast, Oklahoma, Les Mis, Our Town, Curious Savage, Little Shop, Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, etc.
CT: Something's Afoot, Christmas Carol, (no-name locally written drama), (no name Interactive Murder Mystery)
But now we have NO stage as they are building a new Middle School/Junior High, and there will be classrooms on that stage (which we had been using) and the HS stage is always busy (2 shows a year, plus band, assemblies, community concerts, etc.)
Our HS lets HS kids in free with school ID, so they want to get into our CT shows at half price, even though they can afford the tickets ($5, usually), and they do not reciprocate by giving CT members any discount at HS shows.
|
Posted By: Aimee
Date Posted: 8/24/08 at 11:07am
|
The choir director at our school is in the process of organizing a CT, whichwe had years and years ago. He asked me if he'd be able to use the stage during the summer for a show and posibly in the winter (January) when there is not as much going on, might be worth asking about summer usage for you, just a thought.
-------------
Aimee
|
Posted By: 75director
Date Posted: 8/25/08 at 1:26pm
|
It is wonderful if school districts can support the arts to such an extent that they pour nearly professional levels of money into producing high quality shows. It also gives young people and their parents a taste of how good live theatre can be. Because for many people the first and often last taste of live theatre they have comes at the school level.
On the downside of that is it is saddly setting many of these students up for disappointment in the future. When they leave their well funded high school and go to college will they have the same resources? In many cases they will not. Or if they don't do college theatre, or after college when they go out and do CT, or even a lot of professional theatre, will they be disappointed and discouraged by an organization whose total annual budget was less than what their high school spent to costume a show?
Like I said, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have the resources to dedicate to big budget high school shows, but I for one am concerned that these students will turn their noses up to CT or pretty much anything after their high school experience because of it.
On a similar thought I know many of these schools employ staffs that would be envy of most CTs. What kind of educational experience are the students receiving if they're not having to learn how to do every aspect of production? I learned so much from my small high school and later college experience because we were all expected to know how to do everything involved with mounting a show and running a theatre. Thanks to those experiences I was able to relatively easily step into my first job running a CT.
I guess my point is that high school theatre is meant to educate students and prepare them for the future. By being too big and glitzy the students may be missing out on learning the ropes and how to do a lot with a little.
|
|