General Set Construction
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Set Design and Construction
Forum Discription: Post your questions or suggestions about designing or building a set here.
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2945
Printed Date: 11/23/24 at 3:43pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: General Set Construction
Posted By: mary051756
Subject: General Set Construction
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 8:45am
I work with a middle school putting on productions and I am just looking for some general information on how non-profits are doing their set construction - 30 years ago, when I first did this, we used muslin - last couple fo years - I used luan - just looking for general dimensions, materials, etc. That everyone is using now.
------------- “To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” EMERSON
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Replies:
Posted By: oldactress
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 8:59am
I wonder why muslin flats are no longer being used too. They were so much easier to handle than the wood ones most theatres use today. I work with several theatres and they all use luan. As does my husband's high school.
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Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 9:41am
Ease to move and store does not necessarily equal easy of use for the set builder.. Muslin flats are easy to reuse as a standard wall section.. All though you can make the window, door, arch, bends, curves etc of an interesting set with muslin, it does become labor intensive and tends to ruin those "perm" flats you started out wanting to keep. Also, overtime, muslin looses its shape, tends to sag, wiggles more during door closings etc.. yes it can be "fixed" but there too comes more work for something that was intended to be permanent... Luan flats provide the same easy to erect straight wall sections, while allowing for smooth transition to onetime/specialty sections of a set design. They take paint well, are easy to stabalize, dont sag over time and should you need to put a hole in one, one only needs to remove the screws from the frame and throw on a new piece of wood to restore it it to its orignal condition. No stretching, sizing, stapling etc... I know LOTS of people still swear by muslin, but as one who builds anywhere from 3 to 10 sets a year, luan is by far the easier material to work with and provide variety with... One old set builders opinion....
------------- Marty W
"Till next we trod the boards.."
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Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 10:23am
As to your original question... Dimensions? A lot depends on your venue and what you wish to achieve... I have known some high arch theaters that like to use 12 foot or better on their height. Other smaller venues use only an eight foot height, which is enough to be representational… At my principal theater, our light batten is at 14 foot, so I typically build at 10 foot. (Although my most recent set went well beyond the batten to within a foot of our 21 foot ceiling..!) Anyway, once the height has been determined for YOUR standard flat, the next thing to decide is width. If working with luan, the best and easiest is obliviously four feet as that is the width of the sheet. If, however, you want to build a variety of flats to fit the vagaries of different set designs, the normal adjunct flats run in 1ft, 2ft and 3ft, all easily divisible from the standard sheet of luan. Again, you will most likely want more of the standard four foot flats than the fill in flats, but that is something you will most likely decide by experience over time, and dependent on you most popular styles of set design and the layout of your space. (A little different for everyone). With your standard stock you can do some mixing and matching as required. Let’s say you decide on an 8 foot high standard and for a particular section of the wall or on a particular set you would like to go to 10 foot. Often, you can just lay a 2 foot wide flat on its side across the top of your eight footer. You will also need to decide on door and window flats. They can be made up as a standard to be reused or they can be onetime units built to fill the space. We often scratch build these mostly for stability sake. Because stability is our goal, they are often framed with larger stock (2x4 etc) and that gets pretty heavy to haul around and keep together. And we often want extremely different window styles or certain types or dimensions doors on a particular set.
With that being said, you have another decision to make before you can start building you flats do you want “Flat” flats or what some call “Hollywood” or “TV” flats. (I don’t know for a fact that the name comes from movie/TV set flats, but I assume so) A “Flat” flat is build much like the muslin ones you remember. Usually a frame of wood (I use 1x4’s) laid out to the dimension of your luan. Gussets of wood (usually plywood or even other pieces of luan) or metal L braces are often used in the corners to help it retain its shape. If making an 8 footer, then obviously, the luan height will not need to be added too, if taller, than a brace will be needed at the joint height. Personally, I have started using the “Hollywood” flat. It is a little harder to store, but it provides good connecting surfaces flat to flat as well as a good surface for connecting to the floor (or gives more stability to the flat on those occasions that when you can’t secure to the floor, like when I do my kid shows on the gym floor at the high school where I work)
The basic design difference here is that the frame is made like a box vs. a picture frame in the basic flat flat format. The luan is attached to the thin side of the frame board and can (to some degree) stand on its own. If this was way too much information, sorry.. If you should have any questions feel free to ask.. Just remember I am only one builder and there are many variations to the concepts…
------------- Marty W
"Till next we trod the boards.."
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Posted By: Nanette
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 1:14pm
We use muslin flats ... cost effective, and easier to move/store.
------------- In a world of margarine, be butter!
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Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 1:20pm
As stated... easy to move easy to store... But to each their own..
------------- Marty W
"Till next we trod the boards.."
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 8:24pm
When I started out, canvas only was used for flats & drops, but that was in the dark ages.
However along came TV & the use of otherr materials to achieve the same thing. Such as cardboad, particle board & sticky tape. Anything that was cheap & could be quickly assembled, for a gaff situation. A cross polination of the Picture & TV Industry started to creep into theatre useage. I noticed this back in the 60's, which I'm sure the advent of Rockn Roll caused revonlusionary changes to theatre technoligy across the board, with the use & availabilty of cheap inovotive material & products.
From about time there came about a push to use particle board, because it was easier & various reson for not using canvas, became prominent & preferable.
So this brought about the wider use of calico [muslin] because it was very cheap & as good as canvas. Possibly beacause of the weight, storage & handling factors, which became costly wnen labour costs for shows became a big worry. No longer was it viable to have large crews & it was more economical to have the performers utalised to move settings on stage.
In about the 90's I found incresling diffcult attempting to convince theatre groups, to use calico as an alternative to hard flats, which became the norm, even in proeatre. Possibly the net & forums like this, have brought about a swing to the resurgance of soft flats again?
May be it is part of a natural cyle, which could be as about as fancifull as a discription I heard once, of the term Cyclorama. Being a cycle for techies to ride about on back stage!
------------- [western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 1/31/08 at 10:22pm
In our area, In the five theaters I work in three are hard flat users and two still use primarily soft... thats why I started the poll in the poll section to see what the broader world is up to..
------------- Marty W
"Till next we trod the boards.."
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Posted By: Theatrestation
Date Posted: 2/01/08 at 12:59am
We've also moved to using luan in the last three or four years. Aside from the above mentioned benefits, once the luan is past it's useful life as a flat it can be cut for other uses such as signs, or coverings for smaller areas.
------------- http://www.castbuilding.com
http://www.theatrestation.com
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Posted By: mary051756
Date Posted: 2/01/08 at 8:53am
I am so happy I found this site! Thanks to all for your responses.
------------- “To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” EMERSON
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Posted By: mary051756
Date Posted: 2/01/08 at 8:55am
Thanks, Marty - you're advice was exactly what I was looking for.
------------- “To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” EMERSON
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Posted By: dboris
Date Posted: 2/04/08 at 12:30pm
My theater used to use muslin flats but we use luan now. One of the biggest problems I ran into with muslin is that it's easy to damage and once damaged, hard to repair. The luan flats are much more durable, and holes can easily be patched up.
Dan
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Posted By: dboris
Date Posted: 2/04/08 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by MartyW
With that being said, you have another decision to make before you can start building you flats do you want “Flat” flats or what some call “Hollywood” or “TV” flats. |
This is another interesting discussion. I have done both at my theatre and there are definitly pluses and minus to both. As you said the Hollywood flats are thicker so they do take up more storage space, but the wide frame does make attachment easier. The one area where they can be a little tricky is when you are doing a outside corner that is not 90 degrees. This is a little easier to do with 'flat' flats.
Dan
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 2/05/08 at 12:03am
I agree soft flats are easy to damage the skin, however I have found the hard flats become damaged more frequently. Which usualy occurs during striking & bump outs. With the soft after unlash or whatever, they can be just allowed to fall on to the stage. The air is compressed under the skin & forms a cushion for the last foot or so, so the flat gently settles onto the deck. Making it easier to strike. While the hard flats tend to get damaged thru handling or being droped.
I actualy find it esier to patch a soft flat, using a strip of calico & virtualy invisable mending. With the board damage on hard ones, to me no matter how they are repaired, it always catches my eye, as being repaired.
Years ago at little country town, in the bush, about 200KM from Perth. I reskinned a few canvas flats. Orginal they were built by the Fuller Theatre & last used on 'No No Nannette' in 1926. This was the last national tour of the Fuller Theatre, which closed altogether in 1930. The flats were flogged off at the end of the tour in Perth, to various other theatres, finaly winding up in a country town.
Upon removing the canvas & skins of poster paint. Which was virtualy a board made of paint & size glue. The canvas was still in tact & undamaged.
I used calico [muslin] & they are still being used, after 20 years.
I think because most bods handling soft flats tend to be more cafefull, than when handling hard flats, may be the reason for the damage to the hard flats.
Calico once painted, using acrilic paint, builds up a tough skin.
I have never worked Luan or even spoken to her! I'm sure she is easy to work with & a lot prefer this method. But in our gaff world, ease of handling creates less problems all round - but thay is just my experiance!
I used to buy 100 Weight bales of end of loom runs & off cuts, which was cheap, from upholstry suppliers. Unfortunatly they have stopped suppling them like this these days & prefer to flog it off the rolls.
------------- [western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 2/05/08 at 9:46am
Originally posted by dboris
The one area where they can be a little tricky is when you are doing a outside corner that is not 90 degrees. This is a little easier to do with 'flat' flats.
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Not an overly elegant fix, but what I usually do when I have an "off angle" is to use an appropriate sized board (1x4's usually work) to run up the outer seam and create a flat edge...
------------- Marty W
"Till next we trod the boards.."
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 2/05/08 at 2:18pm
Here is something that is creaping in from TV these days.
Scene or stageboard;-
http://www.theatricalsupplies.com.au/sceneboard.html - http://www.theatricalsupplies.com.au/sceneboard.html
------------- [western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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Posted By: Aimee
Date Posted: 2/06/08 at 12:31am
I have used muslin for my flats partly because it is what I have always used, but have been debating switching over. I like the lightness of the muslin, but like many I do not care for the "wiggle" you sometimes get with doors closing. Pros and cons to both I suppose....
------------- Aimee
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 2/06/08 at 6:41am
The wiggle or flap, is easy fixed, by setting door flats independant of the other wall flats. This done by placing the door flat by an overlapping minimal gap, either up or down stage of the adjacent flat. The punters can't see the gap & the door can be banged shut as much as they can. To me this is normal practice, even with hard flats being used, rather than door or wodow flats being connected & attached to the other flats in planning the set out.
Even if headers & tail flats are used, with two jopgger flats as a casement framing the door or window.
Therefore the door or window are a stand alone flat within a set.
------------- [western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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