Masonite hard flats how-to...
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Set Design and Construction
Forum Discription: Post your questions or suggestions about designing or building a set here.
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2813
Printed Date: 11/23/24 at 8:23pm
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Topic: Masonite hard flats how-to...
Posted By: Coconut
Subject: Masonite hard flats how-to...
Date Posted: 11/15/07 at 5:48pm
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How do you make masonite flats for paint?
How do you attach masonite to a 1x4 frame, traditional style? I have a great shop which includes pneumatic brad nailers and a narrow crown staplers. What glue is best against 1x4 frames? What about joints? dutchmen? Which side is best to paint? I loathe painting masonite generally, but is the textured untempered side better, perhaps with lots of primer? As I delve into this Nutcracker project further (see http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2803 ) it appears that there is more than just the drop amiss. The simplest fix is to make new flats around the old staging/levels, to which the dancers are already accustomed and no choreography need be changed. (loadin is 3 weeks away  )
I've never made flats from the stuff, preferring luaun. I've recycled some masonite flats in the past but they were poorly made and all floppy. Termites are an issue under this company's storage conditions which rules out luaun. Framing will have to be p/t which presents its own joyless issues. *sigh* thanks for any thoughts. |
Replies:
Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 11/16/07 at 7:48am
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Personally, (and I've done this a long time...) There is no great trick to it.. Strip off the old material on your frames, make sure they are as true and square as possible, fix any loose joints, and fit your masonite.... I do not glue.. I just nail (or sometimes screw) the cover to the frame. Dutchman on the joints will work, though the paperish finish of the masonite will sometimes tear away after being wetted... Wide tape works just as well in most applications, especially a gaffer’s tape grade if you can afford it, but masking will work too.. The finished side is definitely the side you want to paint... the rough side would suck up a lot of paint and will continue to show a "texture" no matter how much paint you throw at it... I do, however, advise against masonite for general flat use though. Although it is great for special flats and curved sections (due to its flexibility) It adds a great deal to the weight and ungainliness of a solid flat. But if its what you have and you have to use it, other than remembering “smooth side up” just deal with it like you would luan… ------------- Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.." |
Posted By: TimW
Date Posted: 11/18/07 at 9:19am
| One key to remember with masonite, is you may have to drill a countersink for the head of the screws to sit flush with the surface. How about checking with a local lumber/hardware store and treat the luan with an insecticide to deal with the termite issue. |
Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 11/18/07 at 7:33pm
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You also have to attach the masonite mechanicly & rely on glue to
hold it on the frame. As it will warp & delaminate from the
holding glue. You can cover it with muslin/calico on the board surface, using walpaper size, which makes the flat easier to paint. After having used masonite in TV studio set work, along with cardboard & sticky tape. The only time I use it on stage, is as a stage decking cover, which is, as suggested by Tim. Counter sunk tek srewed. The other thing to consider is thin bendy MDF boards, which is as cheap as chips. Again it has to be screw or staple attached, as it is hydroscopic & tends to exspand & contract, depending on the weather. ------------- [western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
Posted By: Coconut
Date Posted: 11/20/07 at 7:35am
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Thanks to you all. Yeah it is thin and bendy. Living on a small island, I haven't the time to order in a more suitable material, or muslin to cover it, very unfortunately. Also, this set will only ever be for the Nutcracker ballet. It's an island institution, and the last set lasted 11 years/33 performances. The termites relaxed their grip and the old set came to pieces. Hence the new one will be pressure-treated frames, masonite panels (which, tho not termite proof, are less tasty than any equivalent such as luaun) and which, at 13.50 ea are cheapest by more than half compared with anything else.
I bought a case each of 5/8" narrow crown staples and 3/4" 18guage finish nails. I'll report back if one proves superior to another. |
Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 11/20/07 at 9:07am
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With the Masonite, is there a Printing Company on the Island? If there is see if you can pick up the masonite used to pack palets of printing paper. This may be a cheap source of material. I think it may be the formaldehyde based resins used in making the hardboard that may deter the termites. I think they might love MDF boards. White Ants are the problem here & in actice areas they put a canister in the ground with a sacrificial piece of pine in side. They check it regularly to gauge the amount of activity & the need to take action. Masonite Licence Platre used in Canada
during WWII;-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Quebec1944masonite.plate.jpg - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Quebec1944masonite.plate.jpg Ali or steel as Vicki suggested may be an alturnative & velco the boards on to the metal flat frames. ------------- [western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
Posted By: Coconut
Date Posted: 12/30/07 at 11:22am
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FOLLOW-UP: It was a brilliant success and here are some things I learned:
-1/4" narrow crown staples are the best for quick and sturdy attachment of masonite to flat frames. Setting staple depth is important for proper attachment. Too shallow and the crown is proud of the panel surface. Too deep (even slightly) and the attachment is too weak. Spend some time fiddling with staple depth to get it right on scrap mtrl. -Yellow glue works (in addition to mechanical fasteners) for augmenting panel attachment to frames, but polyurethane glue seems to be better. |
Posted By: magicguy
Date Posted: 12/30/07 at 5:59pm
| Coconut, did you use glue as well? I appreciate the tips. We use luwan (thin plywood) for our flats. However, it's expensive; about $10 for a 4x8 sheet. I've not used masonite. We used to use muslin, but after a few years it has to be re-stretched. Would you reccommend using masonite? |
Posted By: Coconut
Date Posted: 12/31/07 at 8:25am
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Hi magicguy,
Yes I used yellow glue (TB2) in addition to staples but later saw some similar flats made with gorilla glue and fasteners which seemed to hold a little better. Two factors indicated the use of masonite/hardboard: -basic luaun ply is lovely but here it costs between $25 and $40. (small island economy) Hardboard, OTOH, costs $13.45/sht for 4'x8'x1/8" which is cheap for us. At least we couldn't order muslin and have it shipped any cheaper than that. -these flats are for the nutcracker put on annually by our local ballet school, so they are stored for 11 months, where termites can do their worst. Luaun is wonderful to work with but it is also very attractive to each of the 4 ravenous species of termites we have here. Termites will attack hardboard, but not so vigorously as they will luaun. Masonite/Hardboard is useful for many things, like bending curves as has been mentioned above. But all in all I prefer luaun in every way for stock flatage. Also hardboard is h-e-a-v-y for its size and b-r-i-t-t-l-e! The scraps of hardboard, though, make nice paint test pieces, and are great for model building or painting elevations or for teaching painting techniques. |
Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 1/03/08 at 8:23am
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I know prices on luan vary around the country... but if your in a lowes or home depot or other such mega home improvement store, be careful to read the signs. Our Luan usually runs between 8 and 11 bucks depending, however, nearby and looking about the same as this standard ply is a pile of Oak and a pile of Birch.. Both of which will run from 20 - 25 bucks... I made that mistake once and didnt notice it till the cash register.. Was I ever shocked... ------------- Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.." |