Dinner Theatre help needed
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Theater Administration
Forum Name: Running Your Theater
Forum Discription: General questions about how to make it work
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2751
Printed Date: 11/22/24 at 5:24pm
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Topic: Dinner Theatre help needed
Posted By: Scott B
Subject: Dinner Theatre help needed
Date Posted: 10/15/07 at 3:53pm
I apologize for this being a bit vague, but all of this is still a bit in the planning stages. I'm also sure to have follow-up questions.
First of all ... for the purposes of this post we're not talking about murder mysteries.
A local restaurant has the ability (ceiling height/seating capacity/kitchen) and interest in working with us to produce a few shows a year. The part that most interests me is that they would like to do this as dinner theatre with seating from anywhere between 90 to 150 depending on the setup.
This would be a collaboration between the restaurant (profit) and our community theatre (non-profit).
Shows that we would consider for the venue would be the format like the Nunsense series, Forever Plaid and My Way ... a small cast with minimal sets.
We are just now in the talking stage and haven't even had our initial meeting with them ... I just know that there is a genuine level of excitement on both of our parts.
I've been to dinner theatre, but never been involved in the financial side of the planning. My guess is that they haven't either, so some experienced guidance and suggestions are most welcome.
I know from past experience that our cost to do 6 nights of Forever Plaid was $4300. We did it in a church with limited seating (about the same as the restaurant) and paid no rent to speak of. ($400)
The restaurant will take care of all ticket sales and they will do all advertising in terms of radio, tv and print. I believe they even offered up maintainance staff to help with sets.
So ... how do we even begin to determine who pays for what and how the profits are distributed?
Do we split the budget 50/50 and the profits from the show as well?
Do we take the profits from the show and they get the cash for the meals?
I desperately could use some input.
Thanks ...
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Replies:
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/16/07 at 11:21am
The last show we did turned out as a supper show, as we did it in a
Lawn Bowls Sports Club, we charged $10 /$15 per head, they kept the
charge for the meal & what they made at the Bar , we got full
houses, so where very happy.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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Posted By: biggertigger
Date Posted: 10/16/07 at 7:00pm
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Scott B.,
I have done many dinner theater productions at various venues, from my experience the easiest solution was to keep the two businesses separate.
Figure your budget to mount the production of your show, i.e. rental, set, lighting, sound, salaries, etc.
To mount the production is going to cost $7,000.00
120 (the average amount of people) people for 6 nights is 720
To pay for this production I need to make at least $10.00 a person
The restaurant should give you the cost of each plate, $12.00 (this is average cost I have gotten which is a choice of some kind of beef, chicken, or fish, with sides and dessert, plus coffee, tea, and soda).
So to make ends meet you figure $22.00 a person, to ask for $25.00 would cover cost of both show and meal.
That being said, nightly after the box office is fiqured, the theater group should receive a bill from the restaurant of the number of meals sold that night, (134 plates at $12.00 = $1608.00) you pay the bill with the theater company recouping (134 tickets at $13.00 = $1742.00) out of the $25.00 ticket.
Any additional help from the restaurant should be considered a gift (donation) from them.
I have seen other groups struggle with restaurants trying to make more money from a production that a group has done there. Get everything in writing, make it clear what is expected from both sides and negotiate a fair deal for both sides.
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The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.
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Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 10/17/07 at 12:17am
Lots of excellent information here.
In our case the restaurant will be doing all the advertising which will include print, radio and TV. They will also take care of all ticket sales. However, I can easily take everything you've given me and translate it into what we need to do. If nothing else it's a great staring place.
Thank you for your help.
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Posted By: biggertigger
Date Posted: 10/17/07 at 8:49am
Originally posted by Scott B
In our case the restaurant will be doing all the advertising which will include print, radio and TV. They will also take care of all ticket sales. |
This is one of those areas that can be great or a pain. Make sure that this is clearly understood and written out in a contract. You do not want to be surprised that when figuring out ticket prices they take the cut of plate and an additional cut to cover these costs. Just because they are "doing all the advertising" doesn't mean they are paying for all of the advertising.
As I had said in my original post, I have seen a group that failed to have anything in writing, so when the show was a huge success (they had to extend the show twice) they restaurant decided it should have a bigger cut of the profits. AFter the show closed and the bills paid, the group barely recouped their initial investment.
The other end of the spectrum could be just as troublesome. If the show isn't very successful, your cost will not be covered, but the restaurant may place the additional burden of their losses on your group as well.
This is why I can't tress "GET IT IN WRITING!"
This is not to scare you, just trying to give you a look at the gritty reality of separate groups embarking on the same project. I have been lucky that when I have done dinner theater because of my clear written contracts, we never had misunderstandings and the restaurant appreciated my professional business sense. Because of this whenever I get ready to put together a dinner theater production I have many different restaurants calling me to mount the production there.
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The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.
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Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 10/17/07 at 2:42pm
While I love doing theatre, I love the behind the scenes stuff a lot more. It's the production part that I enjoy the most. I've been in the restaurant business myself for over 30 years, so that gives me some perspective on both sides. There is no way I would touch this without a contract and everything else spelled out.
In all fairness to those responding ... I can't give you the entire scenario of this situation till it gets closer to being a done deal, but this could lead to season of four shows a year with a larger summer musical thrown in at another location.
I'm trying to temper my excitement over this new opportunity with realism, which is had to do sometimes considering we've been without an actual home for a very long time.
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/19/07 at 5:43am
Back in the 60's a character here, got together with a few pro
performers & started up a theatre. By taking over a disuded
hardware shop in the City.
They demoleshed a couple of patition walls & bust a hole in the
back of the shop. Which had a room behind, they used for the stage
protruding the apron thru the hole.
After staging a couple of productions, they did a season of an
'Old time music hall, which they extended & extended. Untill this
character turned it into the 'Old Time Music Hole' & it became
completly a pro venue, operating 7 nights a week.
It could not serve meals & tcouldn't get a Liquor Licence, unless
it did. So he side stepped around the law, by suppling peanuts, Crisps
& other nibblies during the show. Also he fell outside of the
restrictions for a food serving venue.
Anyway the place became that popular, he turned into his own empire.
Opening other dinner theatres thru out the country. Including 'Diamond
Lills Wild West Saloon' & his biggest franchise of 'Dirty Dicks'.
The food was standard fare, but the shows were great. Following a
specific theme, like Dirty Dicks of the British Salt Tax. It cost very
little to produce & update the show. The food got better as in a
wench serving historical banquet, where the punters served them selves
from large plates delivered to the tables.
As you have the experiance it might be something to think about &
test the waters with this resturant deal coming up. Then find a suitable
venue for your group to do thier own thing.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 10/19/07 at 3:01pm
Thanks, Joe. Great story about the way the theatre evolved. It's great to hear success stories like that. It makes you think there are actually possibilities.
Most of the time these things are just a dream. Then ... for someone it becomes a reality. Who knows?
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Posted By: biggertigger
Date Posted: 10/19/07 at 3:01pm
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Joe, that has been my dream to open a Dinner Theater in my area. Alas, it would be seasonal, the area I would consider doing it in offers no property that would fit the needs, and the cost right now are prohibitive. So, until I can accomplish this, I'll be performing at various local venues.
Scott, I do hope your partnership and production are a huge success. Please keep us posted.
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The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/19/07 at 9:52pm
Themed dinner theatre shows have proved to work well for a long time
now, along with the old addage of - 'a good show means a poor fare'
& vicki verka!
Frank Baden-Powell was the character to first start them here. [He
reckons to be a distant cousin of Lord Robert Baden-Powell of Gilwell -
Founder of the Boy Scout Movement & first World Chief Scout]
He was pro Actor who came here as a 10 Quid Pohm.
In those days there was less than 600 thousand people in the whole
State, of which the majority live in Perth. In fact after 7pm on a
saturday night, when the bus stopped running, you could fire off a
machine gun in the main city street & not hit anyone.
He took on a gamble to start up the Fairlanes Bowling Alley, which was
the first automatic Brunswick one here. there was the old 4 lane
Rosemount Bowl, which still had boys as pin setters, this had been
operating since WWII when the Yanks were here.
The Group hit on the Old Time Music Hole & I'm not sure what
happened, beyond it becoming the owner as Frank Baden-Powell
Enterprises over night.
He employed a lot of fperformers over the years & created a lot of
work in the entaiment industry here, than there is today. I liked &
worked for old Frank, but but he was a character, if you shook
his hand - you had to count your fingers afterwards.
He became
quite a famous & colourfull character here.
When he eventualy fell off the perch & turned up his clogs, his Enterprise was wound down & does not exist these days.
Max Kaye (Andy Stewarts ex-manger of 'Donal wheres ye troosers' fame)
Started up his own theme diner theatre '10 past 8 show, he did in his'venue which ran for about
10 years, but it closed a few years ago, when he retired. There is only one show
left & that is the 'Olivers Old Time Music Hall ' which is a
hire-in company, 'you furnish the venue & meal - they supply
the show'.
But with Frank the biggest cion spinner was his "Dirty Dick;s" [A
'Dick' or 'Dyk' in old English was the generic name used for a 'Dog'
(hence the dessert known as 'Spotted Dick' which is a pastrie, with currents & treacle added)].
The theatre was set up with long tables that seats 8 - 10 at them. The
punters on the table would elect a Baron of the banquet table, who
would suppervise dowelling out the meal from large food plates. The
main menu was a chioce of Beef, fish or chicken, with roast spuds ect.
Served by scantly dressed buxom wenchs of course. the show was
performed by about 4 singers who doubled as wandering minstrals as well
as getting the punters involved, the table Barons were the main
target of jokes & the show. Each punter was given a paper bib to
wear , with different famous Lord or Lady names printed on them, from
history.
It was performed to an aude lib script & the format was based on old English revelry at it's best.
Technicaly not that nuch needed in the way of lights or audio, only a
small raised palatform as a stage & a kitchen of course, It held
about 150 & employed only about 8 people in total, as
they would all double up doing multi jobs, even the performing
minstrals. The kitchen had little equipment beyond a stove/oven,
dishwasher & baine maries, in fact the Bar was better equipt.
His initail set up was all with second hand gear, bought cheap at
auctions or fell off the back of a truck. Beyond Health & Safety
restrictions & the Liquor Licencing requirements, it cost very
little to set up.
So if you can think up a good local theme, with just a few Bob to back you - your in busness.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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