Guideline for time between scene changes
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Directing
Forum Discription: For questions about handling shows, actors, crew, board members, children ...or do we repeat ourselves?
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Printed Date: 11/23/24 at 5:27pm
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Topic: Guideline for time between scene changes
Posted By: Kim L.
Subject: Guideline for time between scene changes
Date Posted: 2/04/07 at 5:12pm
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Hi, I am new to this forum. I am the backstage director for a play that our home school group is putting on, Fiddler on the Roof. The play is comprised of 30 middle/high school students. I am working in conjunction with the director, music director and choreographer to map out our show (for lack of technical terms).
As we have worked through the script and mapped out the timing of things, we have developed a discrepancy of opinions on the time that scene changes should take. In my research, I read that a scene change should take 10-15 seconds. Some of our production team would like our violinist to play for 1-2 minutes in between scene changes. I think we may lose our audience if we allow that much time to elapse before continuing with the plot line. Can anyone give me some feedback on this? Thank you, Kim ------------- Kim |
Replies:
Posted By: GoldCanyonLady
Date Posted: 2/04/07 at 5:35pm
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That's a great question and I would like the answer too. We are doing The Curious Savage and there are 3 acts with 2 scenes in each of the first two acts and that is when the clothing changes have to take place (when the 2nd scene starts, it is a different day). With 11 actors ---most of them on stage at curtain, that doesn't leave much time. Barb ------------- Barb Hofmeister, MountainBrook Village Players, Gold Canyon, Arizona. |
Posted By: MikeO
Date Posted: 2/04/07 at 6:29pm
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Kim,
If you can do a scene change for Fiddler in 15-20 seconds, I applaud you. When I was on the stage crew for Fiddler, we had 3 or 4 tech rehearsals to get the scene changes done as quickly as possible. We got most down to under 2 minutes. Playing violin music during the scene changes is a great idea. That is what we did. I wouldn't worry about losing the audience. Scene changes give them time to think about what just transpired. Good Luck! ------------- I'd rather act, but they found out I can do tech & sets!! |
Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 2/04/07 at 11:25pm
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In my opinion, a scene change can sustain an audience's interest as long as there is MOVEMENT. As soon as the action stops (waiting for a platform to be locked into place; waiting for a set piece to arrive; standing around until everything is set exactly right, etc) it's then that the audience suddenly realizes they're stuck in a scene change and they become ansty.
A good scene-change should be as carefully choreographed as a dance number or fight sequence. Playing music is great, but it's not enough. Your scenery should flow in and out as as efficiently as possible.
Emphasis is on the word "efficiently" -- not "quickly." Fast scene changes can be hazardous to cast, crew, sets, orchestra and audience (I've seen more than one harried scene change result in props dumped into the front row or orchestra pit).
Keep the action moving, keep the actors in character, and keep your hands and feet away from anything that might pinch or run them over!
------------- "None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone |
Posted By: Chris Polo
Date Posted: 2/04/07 at 11:33pm
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I don't think I've ever seen problems caused by set changes that were too fast, but I've certainly seen a few damaged by changes that were too slow! The thing to shoot for is to do it as quickly as possible -- as a director, I start to get very antsy as a change approaches the 1-minute mark, and by a minute-30, I'm out of my mind. In my opinion -- and this is just my own opinion, mind you, I've no idea how others feel about it -- if the change is so complicated that it has to run over the 2-minute mark, do it as part of the show. Curtain open, lights up, with crew in costume, or at least color-coordinated. I've done set changes in front of the audience dressed as a maid for Forty Carats (working with the stage manager dressed as a butler), and in our recent production of Harvey, the crew all wore white shirts, black pants and an assortment of bow ties. Open curtain requires smooth, professional choreography, with every member of the crew working swiftly and purposefully -- no aimless meandering, talking out loud, or standing around watching somebody else.
Music is a great way to cover a very short lull for a scene change, and I nearly always use it, but I've learned from experience that what an audience really wants is for us to get our nuts-and-bolts backstage business out of the way NOW, turn the lights back on, and get on with the business of entertaining them.
It takes planning and organization to do a fast, smooth scene change, especially when there are a lot of things to haul off and on at once. Try to make sure you have enough bodies for the job -- if a set change has gone as fast as it can possibly go and it's still too slow, it may be a sign that you just don't have enough people. With a large cast like Fiddler, if you need to you could recruit a few "townsfolk" to serve as stagehands for set changes, if the director's agreeable, and if you've got some good responsible kids who would do it. And Barb, I'd be looking at getting in a few folks to work as dressers for the ones who really need it and keeping the costume changes as simple as possible -- same pants, different jacket, zippers preferred over buttons, shoes that slip on, remove a sweater, add a jacket, etc.
To make scene changes go as smoothly as possible, set things up backstage so that each prop and piece of furniture or scenery has an assigned place at the start of the show, and make sure that things are either returned to that spot or taken to a different designated area if you need to get them out of the way.
Assign your stage crew to certain jobs and dressers to certain people, make sure everyone knows what they're supposed to do and at what point in the change they do it, and then rehearse it until it goes as quickly as possible. If you've got your assignments and choreography really well-balanced, every member of the crew will be busy throughout the change, and they'll finish their jobs and clear the stage within seconds of each other.
When I stage manage, I try as often as possible NOT to be responsible for actually setting or hauling anything. Instead I supervise the overall change, verify that everything's out there and properly set, jump in or send another crew member if someone gets hung up somewhere, make sure all crew members have cleared the stage, and cue lights and sound at the end.
We had a crew of four for Harvey, where the scene changes involve going from the library of Elwood's home to the reception area at the sanitarium. For us that meant removing a side table, two side chairs, a rug, a fireplace, fireplace tools, two large framed pictures, and various and sundry ash trays, vases, and knicknacks, hauling two armchairs and two 8-foot columns to new positions, sliding out and removing a wall section to reveal a door, turning two bookcases 180 degrees to become a new wall, and folding out another wall to form a new entryway. As the stage cleared, we brought on and positioned a large desk, an old-fashioned rolling desk chair, two waiting room chairs, and a new rug, hung four new pictures on the wall, and hauled in and attached an arched doorway to the new entryway. Last of all, we removed a pair of closed 10-foot long drapes on the upstage wall to reveal a floor-to-ceiling barred window -- that was done by two crew members armed with poles, working in tandem to flip the curtains off the brackets holding them up and lower them, with a third crew member gathering up the excess as it came down to keep it off the floor and out of the way of feet, and the three of them exiting gracefully together. By the end of the run, the changes were under a minute. They also got applause every night, much to our surprise.
The key was that every person hauled the same items each night, in the same sequence, and knew exactly where the items they needed were stored and where they had to take them to. Plus each of us was essentially responsible for only one-quarter of the stage. I was upstage right, so I removed the upstage right picture from the wall, helped another crew member put up three new ones its place, moved the stage right column upstage a foot, took a side table off, came back on with the new rug and laid it down, and turned the two bookcases. By that time, the guy removing the wall to reveal the door downstage right was done -- I helped him haul the panel off and place it in its backstage position, and the two of us brought on the desk. I went back for the rolling chair, brought it out, straightened the desk papers, and I was done.
OK, so this is a REALLY long answer that probably went places you hadn't been asking about when you posted your question, but once I get going, I just can't stop! To get back to the original question, I worked one show, a comedy, where the director insisted on "message music" during the scene changes -- he expected the audience to actually listen to the words of these carefully-chosen pieces, because they had something to say about what they'd just seen. They were good choices, but they were also between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 minutes long -- crew was done well before the music was, and the show lost momentum that was very hard to get back when the lights came up again. Plus the audience never heard the songs -- generally at about a minute 30, they start to talk to each other in the dark anyway, and since the music for this show was supposed to be heard, the volume was up, which meant they talked even louder. I decided during that production that the maximum amount of time to make an audience sit in the dark is the least amount of time humanly possible. I also learned it's a mistake to think the audience appreciates my taste in music so much that they'd rather listen to it than talk to their neighbor or watch the rest of the show! ------------- Chris Polo Visit Community Theater Green Room Originals at www.cafepress.com/ctgr "The scenery in the play was beautiful, but the actors got in front of it." -- Alexander Woolcott |
Posted By: JShieldsIowa
Date Posted: 2/05/07 at 12:18am
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Audiences can get really bored during longer scene changes. I know I personally do. I think you can often lose the momentum of a show by longer scene changes. At the same time it can be almost impossible to get a scene change to go extremely quickly. If I know that scene changes will take a while, I have the stage crew in costume (like Chris suggests) with minimal lighting. I will spend time with the crew and come up with a "flight plan" of where everyone needs to go and assign out tasks. This isn't my ideal option, but a couple of the theatres I work with don't have curtains - so sometimes it's not an option to hide the scene changes. In my opinion, if the violinist has 1-2 minutes worth of music but the scene change only takes 30 seconds - don't keep the audience waiting just so the violinist can keep playing. This is a scene change, not a recital. The audience came to see the show. The violinist can be perpared to "fade out" or stop playing as the lights slowly come up on the scene. The biggest complaint I hear from audiences of bigger musicals is "It was good - but it was sooo long". I suggest not intentionally dragging out anything that can be sped up! (These are just my opinions!)
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 2/05/07 at 2:29am
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G’day Kim! Interesting question & good luck with your scenography for ‘Fiddler’! Just to add my Zacks worth to the the other members who have covered it! To me any scene change that takes 15 seconds is too long. I try & make scene changes as seamless as possible, utilising the mise en scene design, sceneoligy, crew & the limited use of the performers [very limited?] keeping in mind they can be useful at times & are just warm props. Realising you are working with students, you can in conjunction with the production team, choreograph into the pre change as a Move Cue for the warm props to effect the changes. Upon their exit or in a brown out which is acceptable & very effective during the ‘chase music’. I have only done Fiddler using a revolve in Pro & Ameatre productions, so possibly this is not that relevant to your situation. The biggest factor with scene changes is working out the logistics of the ‘Moves’ & dove tailing them in by reducing the punters perceived time factor, of the change, with either lighting or other scenic happenings to retain their interest. Unlike TV or film where the audience are actually inside the camera & the scene can be changed in the space of a frame or the movement of a switch, We have to be subtly just as illusionary & cunning. I have no idea the set or props you have to contend with, but in all cases working with a set what should paramount in it’s design is to the KISS principle or apply Accoms Razor to it’s logistics & scene changes. Most script will have a stage plan & various lists to achieve required scene changes, but they invariably will only apply to a pro theatre &venue the show opened in originally & should be only taken as guide. So the set & blocking needs to apply to your space. In most Ameatre productions they have the distinct knack of leaving the set & mise en scene design until the week of the shows opening or as an after thought on the night before the dress rehearsal. {The 6 P’s [Pre Planning Prevents P*ss Poor Performance]} should be applied long before the auditions, especially with a musical. As the TD, SD or SM mark out the provisional set design on the deck of the rehearsal space if you can, either by tape, chalk or whatever, with set pieces & props get mock ups or utilise furniture & objects on hand similar to what would be used, at all rehearsals. If you are restricted or can’t get permission to mark out the floor with tape, I have used white string held with tape at each end, just to give the stage dimensions, then used cardboard boxes & cut out Standees for the set pieces. From this you & the production team will be able to visualise each scene & the scene changes logistics, can be considered at each rehearsal. Instead of attempting to inversely apply the blocking to the set during the tech rehearsal. Also this will give you a better picture on how the scene changes can be better performed efficiently. These days the use of a video camera during rehearsing the production is a useful tool, for you to map out the shows logistics. I remember, not trying to be too ‘Peachy’ or completely saddoble all together, many eons ago. Working on the set of the nation tour of Fiddler, commenting that the set designer had nicked my design idea, for Tevye’s house in Anatevka. The fold out house I designed for a production of the Merry Wives of Windsor a couple of years earlier was very similar. Of course I in turn had probably ‘alf inched the idea anyway from someone else in the first place! The set I did for MWoW was based on a doll house design, with the front part of the house opening out, similar to the one in Fiddler. Except mine was a 2 storey set.- but I was totally convinced it still was my idea first. I was all of 14 at the time, peeved & as thick as two short planks! Anyhow that’s all another story! I hope this helps Kim? As I do tend to go off on a tangent now & then! ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 2/05/07 at 10:55am
Chris, in the world of entertaining set changing, Harvey was my favorite too!.. As we are a thrust with no wings with only about fifteen feet from the front of the stage to the back of the house, we often have to have eveything that is going to be in a show, actually have a place somewhere on stage. I had a set that had rolling book cases that pushed into walls to reveal the glass doors to the sanatarium, floping walls that covered stain glass windows and revealed institutional type doctor doors, two revolves and a on stage left two walls moved to not only cover the living room pocket doors and the revealed stair case beyond, but they created an entirley different profile for the that side of the stage... The center of the stage had an eight foot revolve that on the mansion side had the fireplace with mothers picture above and the reverse had a opaque lighted window with a 7 foot lighted fan transom above.... All of the furnature was loaded on the turn table and distributed from there... We had about six stage crew that worked the change, but they were all dressed as in doctor and nurse outfits. The "Maid" also helped direct the movment. All done under our regular blue scene change lights at a higher than usual intensity. During the entire scene change, which was right about two minutes, we had the theme from Alfred Hichcock playing over it. EVERYNIGHT the scene change got applause. One night, it got a standing O. As I said, due to the nature of our setting and the size of the sets/shows we sometime employ, creative scene changes are often requried.
But to the question, fast is best... Longer can be ok, IF you plan it right... But the planing does start early.. Set desing with changes in mind is key.
I just closed Scrooge! which had a 40ft scene of 5 buildings and an associated town square. Each of these victorian buildings opened like a barbie doll house to provide individual spaces for all the vaired scenes.. One building face opend to the back stage and provided an 6x6 opening to bring out bigger props and set pieces... Our longest scene change was one min 10 sec and on that one we preset 3 additional scenes at the same time. Audience loved it. Bottom line, with the appropriate planning, (which you appear to be doing) required big set changes can be an acutal asset rather than a pure drain... ------------- Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.." |
Posted By: GoldCanyonLady
Date Posted: 2/05/07 at 8:58pm
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This is kind of on the same subject. When there are 3 acts with 2 sccenes in the first two acts, how much time should we allow for inbetween acts? We had set aside 15 minutes for between the 1st and 2nd and 10 minutes for between Act 2 and 3. I'd like to shorten that. We will only do 30 seconds between scenes. Barb ------------- Barb Hofmeister, MountainBrook Village Players, Gold Canyon, Arizona. |
Posted By: Aimee
Date Posted: 2/05/07 at 9:45pm
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For our scene changes I believe quicker is better...to a point. When we did "Harvey" ,when we got our change to a minute-20 I was so excited. The scenery was complicated and it took every second of that time to get it right. It was a complete set change, I don't think a single piece stayed on. I kept telling my tech kids, the audience will truly be wondering "how'd they do that?" So I was not too worried about that minute-20 that it took. Though we did not get applause, I did get alot of "Oh my god how did the scenes change so fast?" or just general comments on how amazing the scenery was.
For most, generally I agree 15-20 seconds. The whole point is NOT to slow the pace of the show. Which sometimes can be a real chlallenge.
Between Acts, we don't pause, never thought to, is that the norm? We do plan a 15 minute intermission at the best point possible in the show.
------------- Aimee |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 2/05/07 at 10:24pm
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To me it would depend upon the length of each act. Also if your ameatre can handle the logistics of the punters needs for a Smokeo or a mass Dunny rush! Which could create problems, especial with the fairer gender returning to the house, usually in tandem, where by blokes tend to fly solo. I’m nut sure what your demographics of age & mobility is, but if it is mainly of the Blue Rinse Set, This might be a nightmare for the performers, with late returns of the Bos’s. ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: falstaff29
Date Posted: 3/19/07 at 11:05pm
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Faster scene changes are always better. Don't be afraid to practice scene changes to get them down right.
Also, music is always better than silence during the change.
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Posted By: TimW
Date Posted: 3/24/07 at 5:34pm
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I would have to agree that speed is essential, but safety is more important. (Gee, has this already been said?). I Always use music between changes, it helps keep the audience quiet initially. I also agree that the choeography of a scene change is great, as long as everyone does their part and only their part! I have done shows where a person completed their job then 'just helped' move another prop, only delaying the change because the actual person responsible for that prop couldn't find it. When I did Noises Off, we had our change down to just over 3 min. That required 8 people to turn an entire set around and replace the set pieces. Still one of my top shows to do for the set. |
Posted By: Mr. Lowell
Date Posted: 3/25/07 at 1:21am
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Hi Kim, welcome to the forum.
Every facility is set up differently and every theatre troup has their own ways of doing things. But as a rule, I try to never do scene changes longer that 15 seconds. With most being 3 to 10 seconds. I feel that long, slow scene changes can kill the pace and flow of a good show.
If you have a set for "Fiddler" that takes 2 minutes to dismantle and move, then wow, I feel like that's too long. If a major change can't be done during an intermission, or it can't be done upstage behind an "in-one scene", or it can't be done creatively in view of the audience, then go back to the drawing board. Can the bulky set pieces be simplified in some way? Can you use alternate methods?
Rented backdrops only take 5 seconds to fly in and 3 seconds to fly out. But if you don't have a counterweight fly system, then how about using some creative multi-scene transforming elements. Could your wagons or flats STAY ON STAGE but merely rotate or open up in some way to transform into the next scene?
Economize on space by giving every set piece more than one use. The second time I did "Guys and Dolls", I built a unit that the crew dubbed "The Transformer". It was the "news stand" called for in the Street Scene. But I made all the shelves full of magazines roll upside down to reveal liquor bottles for the "bar" used in the Cabana Scene. Then the unit was spun around backwards to reveal a mock "pipe organ" for the Mission Scene. I did this out of necessity because there was NO wing space at all. ...the mother of invention...
If you have limited wing space, then how about doing fragmentary scenic elements instead of fully-realized set units? Audiences really only need some simple visual cues to understand where a particular scene is located. If a fragmentary wall with one window communicates "interior" to the spectator, then why bother building three complete walls with three windows?
The second time I designed "Fiddler", I built stylized two-dimensional facades of all the rustic homes in Tevye's village. And then when we needed to see inside his house, or the tailor shop, or the tavern, well then, the facades would simply swing open on hinges to reveal basic interior settings. Exterior village lighting would change to area lighting that delineated the interior of a house.
I didn't have to force the audience to sit in the dark while the crew rolled heavy wagons to and from the wings. The hinged facades were pulled open by chorus members, in view of the audience, during 3 second cross-fades of the area lighting. The intrumental music in the score was all that was needed to cover these transitions, so I did not have to beg the Music Director to vamp. I like that.
I realize that every theatre has different equipment and different ways of doing things. But one thing that I have always taken pride in has been quick and flowing set changes. For musicals, I like to have the set pieces struck by the time the applause for the previous scene completely stops. Then the orchestra plays a 10 or 15 second reprise to cover the noise of the new set rolling on...meanwhile the cast quickly pre-sets themselves in the dark...and boom, lights up!
A musical is a freight train in motion. No commercial breaks like on TV. Keep the ball rolling. Your modern audience is the MTV generation - in the laptop computer age - who talk at the movie theater! If you leave them lingering in the dark for too long they will instinctively reach for a remote to surf for a new channel.
 As a designer, I hate having to resort to asking my Music Director to vamp. During the first dress rehearsal of "The Music Man" for instance, I got frustrated with one particular scene change and pleaded for a 10 second bridge of music. I needed to cover the huge scenery transition from the River City street to the Paroo House exterior AND interior. Well, the crew finally got into a groove. And by the second performance of our run, my (high school) crew had improved their speed to just 3 seconds! Argh! They had their scene change COMPLETED before the conductor ramped up that extra piece of music! I hated sitting in the dark listening to all that vamping for no reason! But by that point, I didn't have the courage to ask the Music Director to strike a reprise that I'd fought so hard to insert...
Some scene changes are actually more fun when done in full or partial view of the audience. People like tech stuff. So if it fits within the style of the play...then let them watch.
We rotated our massive two-story house for "Noises Off" in about 60 seconds as the audience intently watched...and applauded. For "Miracle Worker", I wanted to go to blackout every time my 20' wide turntable rotated between the Keller Diningroom and Garden House. But the Director, Linda Sloan, said, "hey, that transition is very intriguing and very theatrical for our audience to watch, so just give me a 10 second cross-fade in the lighting with moody music". And she was right, it was fabulous. Those transitions became thematic visual interludes that the audience needed to gestate the emotions each scene.
Two weeks ago I did "Disney's High School Musical" with a middle school age cast and crew. My personal goal was for no set change without music longer than 3 seconds, or with music longer than 15 seconds. Luckily the stage version of the show comes with a new character that can stall for time as the stagehands work in the dark. I put "Jack the morning announcements kid" on a proscenium TV screen. Every scene change was completed within the time it took him to say his lines. Blackouts that didn't call for Jack had a brief reprise of a number, if needed.
Kim, going back to your set design for "Fiddler on the Roof"...all I can offer for insight is to "not try to reproduce the photo-reality of the Topol motion picture". The audience has seen it and brings all that powerfull imagery with them, as baggage...positive or negative.
All you need are small tastes of that rustic environment to revive those feelings and make each of your scenes work. A rustic fence. A broken wagon wheel. A bent and gnarly tree with no leaves. A hut with whisps of smoke coming from the chimney. That's enough. No need to rebuild rural Russia in 1/2 scale. Give your patrons credit to use their own imaginations. It always amazes me how much they fill in the blanks when given limited information.
Because, when it all comes down to it, it's all about the moment, not the scenery. Someone stands in a spotlight - sings "Sunrise, Sunset" - the patrons get all choked up. That's what we shoot for.
In my opinion, this moment can be just as powerful in front of a black velour drape as it is in front of a ten thousand dollar scenic masterpiece. Yes...a sentiment that may seem odd to hear coming from a designer. But when it all comes down to it, everything I do is simply window dressing to enhance a performance that is ALREADY stellar.
In other words, keep it simple and don't sweat the set.
 -Dana------------- Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School |
Posted By: avcastner
Date Posted: 4/01/07 at 8:01pm
The goal should be 20 seconds for an average scene change, but others will take up to a minute. Here's how I do a complex one:
It may take 10 or 20 runs in a tech rehearsal to get it right. Let everyone know that. In fact, if you know you have a big change to rehearse, try doing it at the beginning of the rehearsal while everyone is fresh and not quite so grumpy. Then move on with the rehearsal in the proper order. You would be amazed at how smoothly it will run when you finally get to it in the run of the play itself--and how much confidence your crew will have at that point. Make sure that you write EVERYTHING down: who does it, when do they do it, and what do they do. Draw diagrams. Make scene change posters for backstage. Make notecards for your crew and actors to sequester in their pockets.
Hope this helps. ------------- |