There may be art, but in community theatre how long can it last without an audience?

Did someone put the newspaper up to writing the article? The issue of sensorship aside it sounds as if someone was trying to cause trouble for your theatre.

JSheilds, not to get personal, but I think equating the acceptance of "racier" shows with sophistication is rather short sighted. Any white trash person can drop an "F Bomb". I am sure there are lots of people who drop "F bombs" and wouldn't know a classic play or musical if it hit them over the head. Likewise, there are many sophisticated individuals who can name any musical, opera, or symphony in three notes or less and have never even picked up an "F Bomb" let alone dropped one.

I'm not talking about anyone's intelligence or socioeconomic conditions/status. And yes, any "white trash" person can drop an "F Bomb". But can they drop an "F Bomb" and win a Tony and a Pulitzer with it?

Your initial post stated that:

The ?f-bomb? really had no parallel to get dramatic points across. IF that?s what Auburn wanted - he wanted it for a reason in his stage play. He must have known what he was doing to win a Pulitzer and a Tony for the show. If CT boards are concerned about offending audiences - do Annie or You?re A Good Man Charlie Brown and save the ?racier? shows for more sophisticate audiences elsewhere.

Insinuating that sophisticated audiences were the ones that would accept the "F Bombs" and the ones that didn't like the profanity were not sophisticated. My point is that "F-Bombs" have nothing to do with sophistication. As for winning the Pulitzer prize, I am sure he did not win BECAUSE of the language. Perhaps he won in spite of it.  

For saying you don't want to "get personal" about this - you sure seem to be taking it personally...

Please read the threads on changing profanity and videotaping before you continue this practice.  You are identified in your profile by name and theatre, and there are representatives of publishing houses on this very forum.

I don't want to beat a dead horse - I lost my horsebeating stick  - but please realize that you are putting your theatre at risk.

Speaking of the dead horse.... And referencing the never ending thread on changing profanity, although the nay sayers are correct in every moral, legal and ethical position, and as the theaters who feel they can't use that language should have thought better of picking those shows during play reading, there is another fact here.  Those who keep saying, "Your audience probably won't notice", "You have to grow your audience" "you won't loose patrons".. etc etc etc, I have one thing to say, you are soooooo lucky to be in the communities that you are.  Many, many theaters are operating in places where they get complaints for the mildest of cuss words.  I belong to a fairly well supported theater in a highly conservative city in Ohio.  We have had numerous complaints come to the board. Particularly for using the J.C's & G.D.'s.  Now don't bother preaching to me, because I said already that I agree.. But some of these theaters situations are real.. Just this year we got an irate letter from a group of customers.  We did Auntie Mame.  They thought that it should be a perfectly acceptable family show.  But they found huge offence in the "Child Abuse" that the show had in it.  In fact as a minister and his guests (who happened to work with sexually abused children)they felt in was unconscionable that we did a play where the main character supported her minor nephew to go to a school where they ran around naked.  Obviously, not the intent of the piece.. But patrons were offended... It happens.   Again, I don't think it should stop us from doing good theater, and I do think that our language is limited enough without using all the words available to us, but I do not believe we should be inferring naivety on the part of those whose demographics make this a problem for them...

Rant complete.... Thanks.

Should we let one or two audience members dictate what we produce and what the audience sees?  MartyW mentioned that "patrons were offended" during the prooduction of "Auntie Mame".  Count 'em:  two patrons and two guests were offended (out of an audience that night of 124 and a total viewership of about 700-800) .  How about the majority of the audience that doesn't object to mature situations and language?  Don't we owe it to them to present quality scripts and productions that might contain some adult language?

I am well aware of the situation that MartyW described involving "Auntie Mame".  I was in that production and in fact was in the middle of a major and very quick costume change in the entryway when the offended patrons charged through.  They were asked to wait until the change was completed, but refused, and not only distrubed the rest of the audience with their ill-timed exit in the middle of a scene, but made me late for my entrance.  Not to mention exposing me in my skivvies to the rest of the audience when they opened the door leading to the exit!  (Which, I suppose, some audience members might have found offensive in itself...for various reasons.)

Granted, patrons don't come to shows specifically because they might have the opportunity to hear possibly offensive words, but I think the majority of them accept that type of language in the context of the rest of the show, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT GRATUITOUS!  And if the script contains gratuitous language, don't produce that show!!!!  You can't base your season selections on the small number of people that might be offended when the majority doesn't object.  They hear a lot worse on TV and in the movies.  Yes, they have the option of turning off the tube or not buying movie tickets, but don't they also have the option of not buying theatre tickets?  I think that if you make an effort in your show publicity to inform the public that the production contains mature material, the responsibility is then incumbent upon them as to whether they see the show or not.  Yes, we need to put "butts in the seats" (oops!  I hope the use of the word "b--ts" didn't offend anyone!), but I really haven't noticed a drop-off in ticket sales when these types of disclaimers appear in the advertising.  I think the majority of audience members cares more about the quality of the scripts produced and the quality of the productions than about the language in them.  If you allow that quality to drop, that's when you start losing audience members.

Not to mention the legalities involved in altering the scripts, a topic we seem to have beaten to death in this and other threads without it actually getting through to some of the people posting messages.  Edit at your own risk!!!  You might want to reread some of the horror stories that have already been posted (see also the thread on editing out profanity) re:  theatres that have been busted for changing genders, omitting or combining characters, changing language, eliminating scenes, etc., etc., etc.

As MartyW said, "Rant completed.  Thanks."

I knew I'd smoke you out... lol.

But... I state again, if they don't feel comfortable, they shouldn't do'em... If they do'em, do'em..  My particular rant comes from the impression I get from multiple entries in the multiple threads that are tied to this, that those who are concerned are wrong or naieve... I think each theaters position is different, and need to be respected... Is NO theater better than "guarded" theater.. Maybe.. But I doubt it.

I had a wonderful response to MartyW's last post, but the Board had an outage, and it got lost.  I doubt if I can replicate it, so I won't even try.  But, believe me, it was great!

Marty:  who are the "they"s in your statement "if they don't feel comfortable, they shouldn't do 'em...if they do 'em,do 'em"?  Was a little confused about to whom each of them was referring.

I directed a production of Little Shop of Horrors a couple years back. The theatre I was working with at the time had a policy of inviting special groups to a "preview night". One of the groups that really, REALLY wanted to come was an organization that deals with battered women. I was concerned about them bringing their clients to the show because of Audrey getting beat by the Dentist. It was made abundantly clear to them that this was in the show and it might be an issue for some clients because the slap scene was very realistic and somewhat disturbing. They thanked me for the warning and came anyway. EVERY PERSON from that group LOVED the show and were talking about it for weeks afterwards. Had I told them not to come I would not have had those 50 people out their promoting my show by word-of-mouth.

I completely understand there are theatres out there that operate in conservative communities. At the same time - there are thousands upon thousands of scripts to chose from. I would be really upset if someone came in after I had directed a show and changed it without my permission. A playwright spends much more time on crafting a show. Show playwrights the respect and do the show as written or don't do it at all.

As for the "f-bomb" - there is a wonderful book out there (can't think of the name, but every director should read it) that states "f*ck" is the angriest word in the English language. There is a reason why a playwright decided on using that word. I cannot imagine what other word would have the blunt force as the "f-bomb" and could easily evoke the same amount of emotion felt behind hearing/saying/reading that word. Please, if there is a substitute that is not offensive, let me know. (I just don't think "poop", "crud" and "phooey" would get the same meaning across!)

First if you've gotten this far in the topic I'd suggest reading the changing profanity postings.

Second be very carefull characterizing your audience as unsophisticated because of thier religious or moral beliefs.   If your ct is in a primarily "conservative" area and you want to do more contemporary or edgey peices then expect problems.   You need to make a choice as to whether you do shows as written or shows that are suitable to your audience but perhaps less satisfying as "artists."

It's going to be a dilema. You can not solve it by re-writing the script.  In addition to it being illegal, you dis-respect the playwright and your audience.    Do the show as written and post warnings in the program, the box office, advertisements, etc.   Let your audience choose to see or not see your show but don't trick them into seeing something that is not the real deal.

Art without an audience?  This not not a question I lose sleep over.   Will the lead be off book and my set done by opening; these are the questions that most move me.   Advertise and they will come.

Just thought of this.....I was told that the word "f--k" originated in the UK.  It was used by the police in certain types of cases and stood for "File Under Carnal Knowledge".  Perhaps apocryphal, but amusing.

Definitely apocryphal.  http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/f**k.htm - http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/f**k.htm

(you're gonna need to reinsert [hee, hee, I said "insert"] the evil U and C that the forum removed from the link.)

Oh, you devil!!!

And by the way, I just tried getting into that website, and the lily-pure library computer I'm using must have been shocked.....it wouldn't let me!  Even with the "expletive deleted" in the address!