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 Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup |
 Topic: A delicate make up question: Caucasian as Asian |
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magic612
Walk-On 
Joined: 7/23/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
   Topic: A delicate make up question: Caucasian as AsianPosted: 3/24/11 at 11:45am |
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I was recently cast as Ching Ho in a community theater production of Thoroughly Modern Millie. I will note that not a single Asian male auditioned for the show, and I am a blond, very white Caucasian male.
I view the role as any other role: Play it to the best of my ability. The actor playing Bun Foo and I both agree that playing the parts sincerely - both characters are intent on bringing their mother to the U.S. from Hong Kong - is the right way to play the parts, NOT for cheap laughs of Chinese stereotypes, which would be offensive. (The Mrs. Meers character is clearly the one who is "over the top" as written in the show, as she has a criminal past and fakes being Chinese to avoid law enforcement.) Here's the thing: I've been trying to research ways to apply make up well for this part, and have run across three differing lines of thought. One is some helpful ways to apply make up, though unfortunately very few pictures exist and these tend to be oriented towards female makeup more than males. Another is some truly horrible ways to "make" a Caucasian look Asian (tape, string, spirit gum, etc.) And the most difficult ones that I've read is that ANY attempt to make a Caucasian look more Asian is "yellow face" and completely disrespectful to Asians no matter what. (I should note here that one of the Assistant Directors / choreographers for the show is Asian herself, and was part of the casting decisions made. She has not said anything to indicate that me or the actor playing Bun Foo is inappropriate or disrespectful.) So... I would like to know how I apply makeup well that is both respectfully done (not anything denoting a detrimental stereotype) yet also makes the point that my character is Asian and not a blond, Caucasian. I don't mind dying my hair, as I would do that for other roles if required. I don't think that's disrespectful at all. And makeup is used in theater in a variety of ways to make people look different in all manner of ways so that their characters are believable (larger/smaller lips, higher/lower cheekbones, made to look older/younger, etc.). That's what I'm going for: A believable and sincere portrayal of this character. I don't think taping the skin around my eyes, spirit gum on the eyelids or using the "string around the back of the head" is the way to go. Just simple, subtle shading techniques for eyes and cheek bones (things that would be done for ANY character, regardless of show and character/actor) and proper foundation that is appropriate and not "playing to stereotype". Theatre is about the illusion; obviously if I play my character well, the need for additional makeup is diminished. So I am learning my Mandarin and Cantonese as well as I possibly can, playing the part sincerely, and looking for subtle makeup techniques that simply add to the illusion, and not become a stumbling block for either Caucasians OR Asians in the audience (by being too little or too much makeup). Any help on how to do the makeup WELL so that it is NOT garish and indicative of poor stereotypes? Pictures (and/or video!) would be most helpful. Thanks in advance. (I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into an argument, because the director really had no choice: No Asians auditioned for these roles, and again, we have an Asian AD who was part of the casting process and she is completely fine with the casting choices. I know some could say, "Well don't do the show at all!" but if that's the argument, perhaps another thread is better to deal with that since the show would go on with or without me.) |
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TonyDi
Celebrity 
Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325 |
Posted: 3/25/11 at 7:43am |
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WOW!! The parameters you're setting will make ANY makeup work to get any Caucasian person to look Asian, very difficult and limiting at best. I DO however, agree that minimal is best, non-stereotypical applications and ideas for becoming the character with as little as possible or as necessary is best. And yet at the same time I don't think you can worry about offending anyone because regardless of how "sincere" you play it or how minimally you do a makeup job to try to be an Asian person when you're not, is going to raise questions in some people's minds and potentially be offensive to someone. I'm almost certain someone will say "why didn't they cast Asian actors to do Asian roles"!! That's frankly quite unfair when as you note, no-one auditioned for those roles and the show will go on with or without Asian actors in the roles you describe.
I said all that to say this. Regardless of how "sincere" you WANT to play the role or how little makeup you think should be done, no matter what you do, you ARE going to have to draw on some stereotypical characteristics to some degree in order to find those which best create the character when it's this broad a departure from your own ethnicity. I mean you HAVE to find those things that make Asians...well Asian....and play those simply because they may likely be foreign (no pun intended) to your own characteristics as a Caucasian. So there already, you're having to draw from something Asian. Although you seem to me to be astute enough to recognize that "playing" those characteristics need not be cliche' necessarily or so broad and over the top in your attempts to create an Asian character from a Caucasian viewpoint or mentality that it becomes laughable or so stereotypical and cliche' that it's unbelivable.
Makeup of course will help "the look" if nothing else and can take at least 50% of the load of that worry off your shoulders that it's cliche' or stereotypical in the portrayal of the character. BUT there ARE things which ARE TYPICAL at least of Asian people with the color of the hair, the bone structure, the eye structure and so forth which while you fear are stereotypical are simply the norm for that ethnicity. High cheekbones, rounder faces, fairly straight and black hair, epicanthic folds at the inner end of the eye near the nose, the full upper eyelids and so forth are all - here's a better word - CHARACTERISTIC of Asian ethnicities. While you view them as stereotypical, they simply are characteristic and are those elements which a non-Asian person would have to consider at least emphasizing or highlighting (in terms of enhancing that look) to get from one ethnicity to another. I DO agree that the "yellow" skin tones are a bit cliche' yet for whatever reason genetically, the skin pigmentation tends to that hue just as Mediterranian people have olive, or ruddy skin tones, or Africans are darkly pigmented in a wide array of intensities. and Americans have a wide rainbow of skin tones all over the spectrum. There ARE certain things to avoid naturally that come off as cliche' and that yellow skin tone CAN be one of them you can set aside as "just a little too much". Asians are tan just like we are or they can be reasonably darker skinned as well but there is such variety that using basic healthy skin toned makeup for Asian characters will NOT belie the ethnicity anymore than any shade of healthy, ruddy, tanned makeup would belie any Mediterranian character you might portray either.
You mention the eye issue and that IS one element that while you say you don't want to get too into altering because you think it's stereotypical, is going to have to have SOMETHING done to make it appear (as your reference to "illusion" ) will accomplish that look. As you may or may not know, highlights bring features out, shadows or shading makes them recede. Highlighting the entire uppper eyelid and shading areas near the outter ends of the eyes will help but depending upon what your own Caucasian eyes look like would determine how far you can take simple highlighting and shading to effectively render that certainly characteristic feature. Ideally the application of a prosthetic eyelid would be feasible and sensible. And if you could accomplish the makeup that would get you a good looking result - it's the portrayal of the Asian character that will more than sell it as either legitimate, respectful and accurate over cliche', stereotypical, farcical, comedic and/or disrespectful. The makeup need not be done hardly at all as long as YOU believe in what you're doing is the best possible to create that character without going over the top. BUT THAT IS going to require to pull from those "characteristic" elements about Asian ethnicities that are TYPICAL of them - not stereotypical but just typical. I mean how ELSE can you possibly effectively create a character so far removed from who you are - regardless of your abilities as an actor - that any audience is going to believe? YOU HAVE to find something to make that work. Makeup as I said, can take a huge part of that load off - if you LOOK the part, you're half way to the point of convincing the audience you ARE the part. Some may argue the percentage but you get my drift I think. I STILL think things that are typical of the ethnicity have to be emphasized and chosen wisely to enhance - as the high cheek bones, the rounder face, the oval or moon shaped structure (typical or stereotypical - whatever) the black hair (I'd go with a reasonably decent wig rather than dye the hair - enough good wigs out there to create that look) and then the adjustment to the eye area to whatever degree without going over the top. Check REFERENCES - photos of Asian characters of whatever type your character happens to be - for ideas of how they look GENERALLY so you can GENERALIZE the look overall from your Caucasian face to that of the Asian character you're portraying. It will take some testing if you have the time - do it many different ways beginning with minimal application and only basic makeup effort. Try it to the extreme and do enough testing to find that middle ground that best brings those normal, common features of Asian people to your own face. Just like the stage play The Elephant Man - I've seen actors in the excruciating makeup to portray that deformed character beautifully and I've also seen it done completely without any makeup effect at all - by a limber, extremely athletic actor (it takes it) who could contort enough to look the part but who "sold" it equally as well with his acting ability such that you didn't miss the makeup at all but believed this was the deformed John Merrick. So whether you should or need to go to any extreme at all is another decision you might be wise to make. However if you do not use any makeup at all, you ARE going to have to find those elements you're viewing as cliche' or stereotypical to employ just as the Merrick actor had to contort his otherwise non-deformed body to give the audience a sense of what makeup might have been able to provide - yet we didn't miss the makeup in that case. You may consider doing the same thing to whatever degree it takes.
You say you would like photos - well I don't have any to display but references abound - library time perhaps - to research as much as you can about Asian people and the physical characteristics that cause them to look as they do. If you consider that you might want to try prosthetics there are companies that have Asian eyelid prosthetics which can do a lot to take you immediately from Caucasian to Asian with that feature alone. Takes some knowledge of how to do makeup like that but any makeup effort is going to have to go to some length and some level of sell this or help supplement your acting abilities to BE this type of character. I could tell you many things but my first instinct is to have a look a just about any edition of CORSON's makeup book if you can find it and that gives you photos and ideas both from the standpoint of how to create that look as well as some photos of Asian people (but other photo books will help too) and ways you can employ to get to that point. There is even a photo of Andy Kim (an Asian actor from many years ago) who did Coriolanus - who is a Caucasian character in an epic play....evidence that with a good makeup job even TYPICALLY ethnic people can transform.
That's a lot to absorb I know. But you have to first decide on and come to grips with the idea that your approach IS respectful and not stereotypical or cliche' but that you ARE going to have to do SOMETHING that is CHARACTERISTIC and NATURAL or normal within the Asian look that you will have to do to makeup yourself to at least hint if not accurately define the character you're playing. There HAS to be something unless you're playing it totally sans makeup and relying solely upon your acting ability to portray the character. And even then you're going to have to call on something to make that work. People will continue to ask, "why didn't they cast an Asian person in the role" - but you can't worry about those few who will. Just do what you have to do to make it work. Makeup will help but you have to possess SOME skills to do a cross-ethnicity just as tough as it would be to do cross-gender and maybe even harder than that. SO if you don't possess those skills or don't know anyone who does, then it's just a matter of time, research, practice and refining a makeup job to accomplish it.
IF I can be of ANY help to you at all please don't hesitate to E-Mail or PM me here on this board. I've been at this a VERY long time - 50 years worth - and have done all manner of makeup work for stage and beyond - well qualified and seasoned. So if I CAN help or answer any further questions I'll gladly do what I can to assist.
Good luck.
TonyDi
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vickifrank
Celebrity
Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332 |
Posted: 3/25/11 at 9:42am |
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TonyDi really covered a lot of ground. I do have one thing to add. While doing the research on Asian faces, try to find a picture of someone that has a general face shape similar to your own. For example: Oval. It will be an easier task to do make up. As TonyDi notes, there are generalities of racial physical types and stereotypes--however China is a very big place and full of different ethnic strains of people ( the Han people for instance look different than the Mongol people). Thus--and I think this is VERY respectful--you can play an individual asian. I think one of the biggest mistakes we make is talking about the Chinese as one culture. Huge country--huge variety of peoples with different traditions and ethnic characteristics.
I've had sad experience having to advise others in difficult situations: When dealing with prejudice the key is to make others see you as an individual. This is where an actor and character development can SHINE. Be an individual with a real past, present and future. Let your character have a backstory--and make the makeup support that story.
You have an opportunity here to use your art positively.
Here's a link to a photgrapher's portraits of the 56 ethnic 'families' in China http://www.chinahush.com/2009/12/06/family-portraits-of-all-56-ethnic-groups-in-china/
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magic612
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Joined: 7/23/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
Posted: 3/25/11 at 1:23pm |
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Yikes! That's a lot all at once. Let me see if I can hit the major points here.
I think my main concern, to be blunt about it, is to avoid any "yellowface." The U.S. has a poor historical track record with respect to how minorities have been treated in creative forums, and the last thing I want to do is use anything that is offensive. If you do a Google search for these two characters with respect to makeup, you will quickly find a number of prior conversations from Asians that find "yellowface" to be highly offensive. I don't suppose it's possible to avoid offending someone, somewhere, no matter what is done. But avoiding it as much as possible seems rather sensible to me.
And your description of the "Elephant Man" productions that have been done are indicative that believability by audiences has more to do with the ability of the actor than how much makeup is applied. The reverse of this is something like Mickey Rooney in "Breakfast at Tiffany's." I'd prefer to lean towards the former, and avoid the latter.
I hope that I do not have to confront this, but it may come up, and I'd rather be able to say, "I did my best to portray the role as cast, as no one of Asian heritage auditioned for this, and the theater group would have done the show regardless. I'd rather try to portray it respectfully than give it up and it be someone who IS offensive in their portrayal."
I respectfully disagree with this. The part is written in Cantonese and Mandarin, with English supertitles for the audience to understand what is being said. This, much like "The Passion of the Christ" does, goes a long way towards establishing who the character is in this show: An Asian, speaking in the native language. Secondly, it is very clear in the script that the author's intent is for the actors playing these parts to do so SINCERELY. The lines are to be spoken as closely to true Mandarin and Cantonese as possible. If this is adhered to, it eliminates "stereotypes" of Asians because instead of a gibberish, stereotyped "language" that WOULD be offensive, it is the true language of the character. Furthermore, the motions and actions I perform on stage need only apply to what the character is doing and who is is written to be: Initially, the villian's henchman, but ultimately, a hero for the character Dorothy. There's nothing "Asian" about that character in that respect.
Do you mean regarding my actions / motions on stage? Or makeup? Not quite sure to what you are referring here.
Yes, this is what I am getting at, but at the same time, recognize the need to be respectful with how this is accomplished.
I think this one of the more prominent differences of Asians and Caucasians. So using SOME makeup to minimize my own differences while avoiding garish, stereotypical "bad" makeup techniques is, I think, important. That's really what I'm asking in my initial post.
I worry about the "sensible" aspect of that. See this picture: http://hudsonvalley.metromix.com/movies/essay_photo_gallery/comedy-on-the-edge/546842/photo/546858 I REALLY want to avoid THAT, and he used prosthetic eyelids.
Again, this is why I stated that I think what I DO on stage is more important than going too far with the makeup. AS WRITTEN, the goal of Ching Ho and Bun Foo is to get their mother to the U.S. from Hong Kong. That is a UNIVERSAL aspect of humanity: Love of family. That crosses cultures. There's nothing specifically "Asian" about that. So to repeat, playing THAT sincerely is what will sell the character's motivations to the audience more than how I look. But I concede SOME alterations to my looks are necessary.
This is where I think I need to concentrate. I already have high cheek bones; emphasizing them is not difficult. Face is not round, but with the hat for my costume, this will be made easier. Eyes I think are my biggest concern; doing them subtly, but well, and not going overboard. Skin tone can be done properly without going ridiculously "yellow" or whatever, as many Asians do not even have a yellow tone, but rather a more tan/olive tone as you indicated earlier. I don't mind dying my hair; I think this will work rather well, actually.
THIS is a very good idea I hadn't thought of, and very helpful. THANK YOU for suggesting this, as I can try various things at home first (I have my own full makeup kit - I can't stand the thought of sharing makeup and never understand why other actors do it so readily!).
This is why I think makeup can be used subtly and effectively in this situation. Makeup is used to make even Caucasian actors portraying Caucasian characters look different all the time - bigger/smaller lips, higher/lower cheek bones, more pale / darker, etc. I just want to find a good "middle ground" that, yes, emphasizes certain characteristics without dropping into the farcical/stereotyping that could easily offend.
I will look into that - I appreciate the suggestion. Again, thank you.
I know. I just want to be careful about how I approach it.
Again, thank you. I do appreciate that, and if I run into difficulties, I will not hesitate to contact you. :) |
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Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness how genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now. ~ often attributed to Goethe
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magic612
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Joined: 7/23/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
Posted: 3/25/11 at 1:27pm |
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Thank you for this post, and the link as well. I agree - the backstory is important, and my character does have one as both clearly indicated and implied by the script. I just want to do my best to do this role "right" - not simply in how I sing and act, but also in how I portray the character with respect to how he looks. Many people in the community where the show is being done know me, and will recognize that I am a Caucasian playing an Asian character. I just want to do it well not only for them, but for any Asians in the audience that DON'T know me, so they can say, "THAT was an excellent portrayal." A fine line, to be sure, and hopefully I am - and will - walk it well. Edited by magic612 - 3/25/11 at 1:28pm |
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Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness how genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now. ~ often attributed to Goethe
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GeeGee
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Joined: 9/06/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
Posted: 3/26/11 at 10:46pm |
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As an Asian American, I appreciate your desire to not be offensive and to be sensitive with your portrayal. However, this is a play, and it is not uncommon for actors to play characters with differing ethnicities. If I or other members of my family were to attend your play, we would not be offended or surprised that a Caucasian was playing this role. Don't be afraid! Give yourself wholly to the role and stop worrying about who you will offend. If you play the role to the best of your ability and stay away from rude stereotypes no one will be offended. But don't stay away from "looking" the part because you are worried about being offensive! Go for it! I would be really annoyed if I went to see this play and Ching Ho looked like a white guy
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vickifrank
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Posted: 3/27/11 at 8:31pm |
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magic612
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Joined: 7/23/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
Posted: 3/27/11 at 8:59pm |
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I appreciate this. Trust me, I'm not going for the, "White dude dyes his hair black thinking that will make him look Chinese" mindset. At the same time, going to extremes that are stereotypical/offensive (a la Mickey Rooney) is obviously a road I don't wish to take. I do wish to look "characteristic" of the character I am playing. Not "offensive stereotype." Therefore, guidance on how to get to that point - without going overboard - is welcome and appreciated, as are your thoughts on this subject.
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Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness how genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now. ~ often attributed to Goethe
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edh915
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Posted: 3/28/11 at 10:16am |
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What guidance have you received from your director?
(The person who must be considered the final authority on how the role is to be played.) Seems to me it's up to the director to say whether you are giving too much, or not enough. And it's been my experience that it's easier to start by going overboard on the stereotypical characteristics and then cutting back, rather than trying to "build" to an "acceptable" level. Your heart is definitely in the right place, but I also believe that you are "thinking" about this way too much. Please, have fun with it. I mean this is "Thoroughly Modern Millie" - not Ibsen, Miller or Chekov. Heck, it's not even Rodgers and Hammerstein. |
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magic612
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Joined: 7/23/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4 |
Posted: 4/06/11 at 10:49am |
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At the moment, not much, as I think it's not a primary concern presently - which in all fairness, it's not for the show as a whole. But certainly it will be at some point soon, and so I want to have thought about this ahead of time. She's ordered foundation for me, but beyond that, I want to have some good ideas of my own to bring to the table.
I'll keep that in mind as I try various things at home. As someone who has been told he has a "face like Silly Putty," I have been playing around with different ways to hold my eyebrows/eyes and see what works. One thing I have found quite interesting is that if I raise my eyebrows and slightly squint my eyes, it dramatically diminishes the Caucasian "crease" in my eyelids. That also places my eyebrows in a place where they look more characteristic of Asians. So by the time I dye my hair and hold my face in this position, I think very little extra eye makeup may actually be required, but we'll see. I have time to work on it.
Believe me when I say that I have had easily a dozen other things to worry about in addition to this (learning my Mandarin and Cantonese lines/lyrics for starters!). So this is merely the place for me to discuss this particular aspect of my character where there are others who can offer their thoughts and experiences from outside of my little community. So I appreciate any and all feedback - but I personally don't think I'm thinking about it too much. I think it's more a matter of preferring to be ahead of the game, rather than trying to play catch up at crunch time.
And no worries - I'm having a lot of fun rehearsing right now. In fact, after three weeks of putting a LOT of time and effort into it, I have most of my lines memorized (learning the Chinese was much more difficult than I anticipated - the MTI-provided CD has been very helpful). 
I really appreciate the feedback everyone has provided here - it has been immensely beneficial and helpful. Truly, I thank all of you. |
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