Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: cyc lighting ?

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Kim L.
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Topic: cyc lighting ?
Posted: 1/23/11 at 4:43pm

I am lighting illiterate. So, please bear with me.

I want to light the cyclorama with color (one scene-red, one scene-blue). I am visiting the theatre this week, that we rent, to take a look at their lighting fixtures. The theatre is managed by the athletic director of the school. So, she has no idea how to do anything with the lights. After I get into the theatre and take a peek, I do have an option of consulting with a lighting designer (which is probably the wisest thing anyway).

But, before getting to that point, I would like to ask ?'s. The theatre does not have fly space. Instead, the is a wire mesh floor above the stage, where you have access to the fixtures. My questions: What do I need in order to get nice (vibrant) color on the cyc? The dimension of the cyc is 21 high by 24 ft (roughly) Does it matter what fixtures they have to determine what kind of affect I can get? How many fixtures does it take to achieve the vibrant color? What would the spacing need to be? How far away from the cyc do they need to be? Am I going to need ground lighting? If so, do they need to be theatrical fixtures or could I make something with colored light bulbs?

Thanks for any advice.

Kim

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SM_Ted
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Posted: 1/23/11 at 7:36pm

Using anything with coloured bulbs won't have the punch you're looking for. Ideally, you want to get your hands on some cyc units or ministrips. Something along these lines: http://www.altmanltg.com/borderlights-zip-strip.htm.

These cyc strips can be suspended above, mounted on the ground, or both.

Gel them your desired colour combined with either clear silk (R104 for example) or a diffusion frost (R100) for a nice even colour.

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JoeMc
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Posted: 1/24/11 at 5:24am

Here is the Lee Filter site which has the 'colour Ball' & also a colour Comparator, which you can compare the gel numbers between other brands like Rosco or GAM;-
http://www.leefiltersusa.com/lighting/

They also have a list of suitability of colours for various uses, such as the Cyclorama.

Various cyc light fixtures

http://www.archiexpo.com/cat/urban-lighting-technical-lighting/stage-lighting-borderlights-cyc-lights-AQ-1299.html

Edited by JoeMc - 1/24/11 at 6:22am

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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David McCall
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Posted: 1/24/11 at 10:55am

It is all very compicated. Lighting a cyc typically takes a lot of power. Most often we use what are called "cycolorama lights" also called "cyc lights" they are placed at the bottom or the top of the cyc. On a good yay you get top and bottom :-) The fixtures hold 1 to 4 colors which can be mixed together to make more colors The reflectors are specially designed to light a vertical surface evenly. Typically you separate the fixtures by about the same distance the lights are from the cyc. If the lights are placed 8' from the cyc, then you would place the fixtures 8' apart. Of course it varies depending on the design of the fixture. 3 or 4 might be enough for a cyc that is 24' wide.

There has also been a suggestion of using striplights. They work, but not nearly as well as lights designed for the job. You can get a good effect with them though it just isn't as smooth. They need to run all of the way across to be even. If they were 6' strips, you would need 4 of these as well. Some have expressed that "zip strips" work well on a cyc. These use many very small very efficient lamps.

Most often we use Red, Blue, and Green as our colors. If there are 4 circuits we either add a lighter Blue, or Amber. These colors can be mixed to create nearly a full spectrum of colors. The exact colors used varies from designre to designer, and the specific needs of the show.

David M

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JoeMc
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Posted: 1/24/11 at 9:56pm

David has posted very good pionts about Cyc lanterns & thier 'X' position hanging in relatiomship to the cyc cloth.

Which as he pionts out this is dependant on the type of cyc lanterns they have & the type of reflectors that are fitted, witch can differ between floods, strip & cycllights.

Symmetrical Asymmetrical

Also being a rent house you are normally stuck with whatever Gel they have in stock, unless you supply your own or pay the rent house a premium purchase rate to supply them.

Also a further thing to be wary of is if you required to pay a fee for any lighting Design, ensure your not just receiving a standard colour wash rig with a few Specials refocused chucked in.

Rather than the old RGB gel colours, I never seem to use a Green cyc that often. the only time I add the green is with a four colour wash or as a mix for a special colour effect.

I prefer to use Straw [L103] , pink [L107], blue [L161 or L132]. dependant on the show I will occasionally add Tokyo Blue [L071] or Congo Blue [L180] , Red [L106] - Amber, rose or Broadway pink [a.k.a Nipple pink] . but that's just me!

Edited by JoeMc - 1/25/11 at 10:00am

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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David McCall
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Posted: 1/25/11 at 9:42am

Nice posting, and very interesting color choices. I'm going to take a look at them next time I re-gel my cyc.

My personal preference is to start with empty pipes and a pile of lights, however it isn't practical in my situation. Many of us work in rooms that get used by a lot of different clients. I try to maintain a basic plot in the room and do a minimum amount of changes per show. At least it is my plot

. There is no budget, and often very little time, to rig and focus, and even less to return the room back to the Rep plot. If I had more kids that were interested in tech, I could do more, but we aren't to that point yet.

David M

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Kim L.
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Posted: 1/25/11 at 7:58pm

I visited the theatre today and crawled up to the lights. I found that they have 11 fixtures that are Broad Cyc 6571. I found information on this fixture at: http://www.le-us.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/broadcycspec.pdf

If I only need 4 cyc lights up top, could I take the remaining fixtures and mount them on the ground for the ground row lights?

Does each fixture hold just one color or more than that?

Thanks so much!!

Kim

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bmiller025
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Posted: 1/25/11 at 11:37pm

That fixture has, as Joe discussed, an asymmetric reflector. If you look at the brochure you linked to, there is a basic fixture which takes one color, but they also connect the individual units together to make a multi-color fixture as well. They show examples of two, three and four unit fixtures. I get the sense that what you saw were eleven single unit fixtures. That also makes sense to me, given that there is a wire mesh grid there. If that is correct, you could do almost three full color washes with that number of fixtures. If you use one color that has a significantly higher transmission percentage than the other colors, you might be able to cover the entire cyc with just three fixtures with that color. Or you could have two colors, each in four fixtures up above, and position the other three fixtures down below, a bit further away from the cyc, to assure even coverage. You might also want to try selecting a color down below that will blend nicely with, but transform the two colors you used above into something else, and open up a whole bunch of interesting color possibilities for yourself. Have fun!

Edited by bmiller025 - 1/25/11 at 11:39pm

http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm

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David McCall
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Posted: 1/26/11 at 2:39am

Those look like they are fairly capable cyc lights. If they only have one cell then they can only do one color. You could try 3 blues and 2 of another color on top to give a little color range, and then put 2 sets of 3 lights on the floor to give 2 colors at the bottom. That is spreading them pretty thin though.

David

David M

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JoeMc
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Posted: 1/26/11 at 4:59am

The lantern units look like they are fitted with Trunion brackets which make it easy for them to be adapted as groundrows'

Just a quick tip as the are QI Linear bubbles it is not advisable to mount them on their end as side or boom lights.

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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Lights and Sound
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound

Author	Message
Kim L. Star Joined: 2/03/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 86	Topic: cyc lighting ? Posted: 1/23/11 at 4:43pm
	I am lighting illiterate. So, please bear with me. I want to light the cyclorama with color (one scene-red, one scene-blue). I am visiting the theatre this week, that we rent, to take a look at their lighting fixtures. The theatre is managed by the athletic director of the school. So, she has no idea how to do anything with the lights. After I get into the theatre and take a peek, I do have an option of consulting with a lighting designer (which is probably the wisest thing anyway). But, before getting to that point, I would like to ask ?'s. The theatre does not have fly space. Instead, the is a wire mesh floor above the stage, where you have access to the fixtures. My questions: What do I need in order to get nice (vibrant) color on the cyc? The dimension of the cyc is 21 high by 24 ft (roughly) Does it matter what fixtures they have to determine what kind of affect I can get? How many fixtures does it take to achieve the vibrant color? What would the spacing need to be? How far away from the cyc do they need to be? Am I going to need ground lighting? If so, do they need to be theatrical fixtures or could I make something with colored light bulbs? Thanks for any advice.
	Kim

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SM_Ted Player Joined: 7/31/10 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 18	Posted: 1/23/11 at 7:36pm
	Using anything with coloured bulbs won't have the punch you're looking for. Ideally, you want to get your hands on some cyc units or ministrips. Something along these lines: http://www.altmanltg.com/borderlights-zip-strip.htm. These cyc strips can be suspended above, mounted on the ground, or both. Gel them your desired colour combined with either clear silk (R104 for example) or a diffusion frost (R100) for a nice even colour.
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 1/24/11 at 5:24am
	Here is the Lee Filter site which has the 'colour Ball' & also a colour Comparator, which you can compare the gel numbers between other brands like Rosco or GAM;- http://www.leefiltersusa.com/lighting/ They also have a list of suitability of colours for various uses, such as the Cyclorama. Various cyc light fixtures http://www.archiexpo.com/cat/urban-lighting-technical-lighting/stage-lighting-borderlights-cyc-lights-AQ-1299.html Edited by JoeMc - 1/24/11 at 6:22am
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 1/24/11 at 10:55am
	It is all very compicated. Lighting a cyc typically takes a lot of power. Most often we use what are called "cycolorama lights" also called "cyc lights" they are placed at the bottom or the top of the cyc. On a good yay you get top and bottom :-) The fixtures hold 1 to 4 colors which can be mixed together to make more colors The reflectors are specially designed to light a vertical surface evenly. Typically you separate the fixtures by about the same distance the lights are from the cyc. If the lights are placed 8' from the cyc, then you would place the fixtures 8' apart. Of course it varies depending on the design of the fixture. 3 or 4 might be enough for a cyc that is 24' wide. There has also been a suggestion of using striplights. They work, but not nearly as well as lights designed for the job. You can get a good effect with them though it just isn't as smooth. They need to run all of the way across to be even. If they were 6' strips, you would need 4 of these as well. Some have expressed that "zip strips" work well on a cyc. These use many very small very efficient lamps. Most often we use Red, Blue, and Green as our colors. If there are 4 circuits we either add a lighter Blue, or Amber. These colors can be mixed to create nearly a full spectrum of colors. The exact colors used varies from designre to designer, and the specific needs of the show.
	David M
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JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 1/24/11 at 9:56pm
	David has posted very good pionts about Cyc lanterns & thier 'X' position hanging in relatiomship to the cyc cloth. Which as he pionts out this is dependant on the type of cyc lanterns they have & the type of reflectors that are fitted, witch can differ between floods, strip & cycllights. Symmetrical Asymmetrical Also being a rent house you are normally stuck with whatever Gel they have in stock, unless you supply your own or pay the rent house a premium purchase rate to supply them. Also a further thing to be wary of is if you required to pay a fee for any lighting Design, ensure your not just receiving a standard colour wash rig with a few Specials refocused chucked in. Rather than the old RGB gel colours, I never seem to use a Green cyc that often. the only time I add the green is with a four colour wash or as a mix for a special colour effect. I prefer to use Straw [L103] , pink [L107], blue [L161 or L132]. dependant on the show I will occasionally add Tokyo Blue [L071] or Congo Blue [L180] , Red [L106] - Amber, rose or Broadway pink [a.k.a Nipple pink] . but that's just me! Edited by JoeMc - 1/25/11 at 10:00am
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
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David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 1/25/11 at 9:42am
	Nice posting, and very interesting color choices. I'm going to take a look at them next time I re-gel my cyc. My personal preference is to start with empty pipes and a pile of lights, however it isn't practical in my situation. Many of us work in rooms that get used by a lot of different clients. I try to maintain a basic plot in the room and do a minimum amount of changes per show. At least it is my plot . There is no budget, and often very little time, to rig and focus, and even less to return the room back to the Rep plot. If I had more kids that were interested in tech, I could do more, but we aren't to that point yet.
	David M
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Kim L. Star Joined: 2/03/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 86	Posted: 1/25/11 at 7:58pm
	I visited the theatre today and crawled up to the lights. I found that they have 11 fixtures that are Broad Cyc 6571. I found information on this fixture at: http://www.le-us.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/broadcycspec.pdf If I only need 4 cyc lights up top, could I take the remaining fixtures and mount them on the ground for the ground row lights? Does each fixture hold just one color or more than that? Thanks so much!!
	Kim
	IP Logged

bmiller025 Star Joined: 10/06/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 82	Posted: 1/25/11 at 11:37pm
	That fixture has, as Joe discussed, an asymmetric reflector. If you look at the brochure you linked to, there is a basic fixture which takes one color, but they also connect the individual units together to make a multi-color fixture as well. They show examples of two, three and four unit fixtures. I get the sense that what you saw were eleven single unit fixtures. That also makes sense to me, given that there is a wire mesh grid there. If that is correct, you could do almost three full color washes with that number of fixtures. If you use one color that has a significantly higher transmission percentage than the other colors, you might be able to cover the entire cyc with just three fixtures with that color. Or you could have two colors, each in four fixtures up above, and position the other three fixtures down below, a bit further away from the cyc, to assure even coverage. You might also want to try selecting a color down below that will blend nicely with, but transform the two colors you used above into something else, and open up a whole bunch of interesting color possibilities for yourself. Have fun! Edited by bmiller025 - 1/25/11 at 11:39pm
	http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 1/26/11 at 2:39am
	Those look like they are fairly capable cyc lights. If they only have one cell then they can only do one color. You could try 3 blues and 2 of another color on top to give a little color range, and then put 2 sets of 3 lights on the floor to give 2 colors at the bottom. That is spreading them pretty thin though. David
	David M
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JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 1/26/11 at 4:59am
	The lantern units look like they are fitted with Trunion brackets which make it easy for them to be adapted as groundrows' Just a quick tip as the are QI Linear bubbles it is not advisable to mount them on their end as side or boom lights.
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

Topic: cyc lighting ?
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