Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: PETER PAN

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Mr. Lowell
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Topic: PETER PAN - flying vs. backdrops
Posted: 5/05/10 at 10:17am

The show package of 13 Peter Pan backdrops from Kenmark are absolutely beautiful.

Here: http://www.kenmark-inc.com/pages/packages/packages-peterpan.html

I would love to use them! But they will take up 13 of my 26 fly lines, leaving no room for a fly rigging company such as Flying by Foy or zfx to bind my battens together to make a grid to support the kids. So how do I do both?

My thought is to use my large, heavy-duty lighting catwalk that hangs 30 feet above the orchestra pit, just in front of the proscenium, (as seen in this photo, supporting the speaker arrays). That way, the kids would fly over the apron, pit and front aisle of the house, while leaving the fly loft free for the rented drops.

Question: have any of you ever flown actors in front of the proscenium before?

It seems to me that this would be a very solid and sturdy way to hang their rigging. But there is no wing space in front of the proscenium arch. So where would I hide the "stage dad's" needed to run those fly lines?

Thanks, Dana

Edited by Mr. Lowell - 5/26/10 at 11:40am

Mr. Lowell,
Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director,
for the Linda Sloan Theatre,
in the Davison Center for the Arts,
at Greensboro Day School

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JoeMc
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Posted: 5/05/10 at 8:06pm

Is it possible to erect a false Pro on the Apron, with a Teaser [border] &/or Tormentor [legs] as masking utalising the lighting catwalk. Or just use dead hung soft leg drops to mask the apron on the OP & Prompt sides of the pro to form wings.
We use telescopic variable height poles as masking in my old theatre.
Backdrop Stands
Checkout the 5A poles they are similar & go upto 14' in height, which may help to hang the leg maskings.

Edited by JoeMc - 5/05/10 at 8:51pm

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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Spectrum
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Posted: 5/05/10 at 9:28pm

I went to a Broadway touring production of PETER PAN (starring Cathy Rigby) a few years ago and they had her flying out over the audience, probably 30 or 40 feet from the stage. Granted, her flight path was rather limited (pretty much in a narrow loop out and back again, but that showed me it could be done. Not exactly the answer you were looking for, I'm sure, but I know it CAN be done, so maybe the "flight" company you hire is equipped to do such a thing. Good luck with it! From the sound/looks of things, I'd LOVE to see any and all of YOUR productions.

Edited by Spectrum - 5/06/10 at 3:47am

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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David McCall
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Posted: 5/06/10 at 11:45pm

We did Peter Pan on a stage with very few line sets and only a 27' and Foy just rigged it directly to the grid. I got to be the guy to take it all down after the run. Your fly tower is probably 2-3 times that high so it would take a big lift unless you have a grid that you can walk out on.

Rigging it out front is probably doable. The rig we got was in 2 sections. the front section involved a track that went a little beyond the width of the proscenium. That had a trolley that ran back and forth and a special geared pulley mechanism that allowed for the up and down to work consistently no matter where the Tolley is on the track. A pretty fancy machine.

The other rig was your basic pulleys and aircraft cable with a rope attached to make it possible to operate by hand. There were 3 of these simple rigs in a straight line. They all just go up and down. The center one is used when Peter flys in the window. That involves a "stage dad's" jumping off of a ladder to get the momentum going. This set will probably need to be back stage because of the window bit, but the fancy part might work fine out front. You would have to build a place to hide the "stage dad's" pulling the ropes. That might need to be as big as 8' x 8', but you should check with the Foy guy.

David M

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Mr. Lowell
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Posted: 5/07/10 at 8:54am

Thanks for the good info, guys!

One "problem" with my theatre is that, (to save money during construction), they "dead hung" the loft blocks from the roof I-beams instead of installing a grid! Argh...!

I have a full-scale fly loft tower that is 66 feet high. Yes, there are construction-style Genie lifts that can reach 66 feet high. But I would rather not drive them onto the stage because I have a sprung dance floor that could get damaged. The only way to repair fouled rigging is for a professional rigger to clip onto the aircraft cables with a 5-point harness and walk out on another batten that is lashed off tight! I have seen a guy do it...and it's a real "butt pucker" ordeal.

Argh...!

So a crew like Foy or zfx would have to trim several of my battens at about 25 feet high and attach perpendicular pipes to create a lower gridwork. This would be a major pain. Besides, it would make it impossible to fly in my electrics, and as I mentioned, I would not be able to use all those "plum sexy" backdrops from Kenmark.

So PLAN A would be to get Foy or another professional crew to dead-hang their gear from my proscenium catwalk...and then see if our "fly dad's" could hide inside my second-story box boom windows, (seen in the photo above, just in front of the speakers).

Or PLAN B would be to convince the director to do the "flying" artistically, relying more on the audiences' imagination, instead of actually hanging our actors on wires. I think the audience has the imagination to "buy it" if done correctly, but the idea would be a hard sell to my director.

We will see...

Thanks, Dana

Edited by Mr. Lowell - 5/26/10 at 11:41am

Mr. Lowell,
Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director,
for the Linda Sloan Theatre,
in the Davison Center for the Arts,
at Greensboro Day School

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Mr. Lowell
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Joined: 1/30/07
Location: United States
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Posted: 5/07/10 at 8:56am

By the way, in researching fly rigging for Peter Pan, I stumbled on this good article about the risks of flying kids. It includes a disturbing video of an actual accident! The poetic irony here is that you can hear a baby crying in the audience during all the chaos...

http://backstageat.backstagejobs.com/?p=569

Edited by Mr. Lowell - 5/07/10 at 9:22am

Mr. Lowell,
Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director,
for the Linda Sloan Theatre,
in the Davison Center for the Arts,
at Greensboro Day School

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Mr. Lowell
Celebrity

Joined: 1/30/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269

Posted: 6/11/10 at 11:50am

----- Original Message ----

PETER PAN will not be available for production in February 2011 due to a national tour. Chris Lonstrup, Samuel French, Inc.

Mr. Lowell,
Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director,
for the Linda Sloan Theatre,
in the Davison Center for the Arts,
at Greensboro Day School

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
Mr. Lowell Celebrity Joined: 1/30/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 269	Topic: PETER PAN - flying vs. backdrops Posted: 5/05/10 at 10:17am
	The show package of 13 Peter Pan backdrops from Kenmark are absolutely beautiful. Here: http://www.kenmark-inc.com/pages/packages/packages-peterpan.html I would love to use them! But they will take up 13 of my 26 fly lines, leaving no room for a fly rigging company such as Flying by Foy or zfx to bind my battens together to make a grid to support the kids. So how do I do both? My thought is to use my large, heavy-duty lighting catwalk that hangs 30 feet above the orchestra pit, just in front of the proscenium, (as seen in this photo, supporting the speaker arrays). That way, the kids would fly over the apron, pit and front aisle of the house, while leaving the fly loft free for the rented drops. Question: have any of you ever flown actors in front of the proscenium before? It seems to me that this would be a very solid and sturdy way to hang their rigging. But there is no wing space in front of the proscenium arch. So where would I hide the "stage dad's" needed to run those fly lines? Thanks, Dana Edited by Mr. Lowell - 5/26/10 at 11:40am
	Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School

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JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 5/05/10 at 8:06pm
	Is it possible to erect a false Pro on the Apron, with a Teaser [border] &/or Tormentor [legs] as masking utalising the lighting catwalk. Or just use dead hung soft leg drops to mask the apron on the OP & Prompt sides of the pro to form wings. We use telescopic variable height poles as masking in my old theatre. Backdrop Stands Checkout the 5A poles they are similar & go upto 14' in height, which may help to hang the leg maskings. Edited by JoeMc - 5/05/10 at 8:51pm
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

Spectrum Celebrity Joined: 4/16/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 5/05/10 at 9:28pm
	I went to a Broadway touring production of PETER PAN (starring Cathy Rigby) a few years ago and they had her flying out over the audience, probably 30 or 40 feet from the stage. Granted, her flight path was rather limited (pretty much in a narrow loop out and back again, but that showed me it could be done. Not exactly the answer you were looking for, I'm sure, but I know it CAN be done, so maybe the "flight" company you hire is equipped to do such a thing. Good luck with it! From the sound/looks of things, I'd LOVE to see any and all of YOUR productions. Edited by Spectrum - 5/06/10 at 3:47am
	Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 5/06/10 at 11:45pm
	We did Peter Pan on a stage with very few line sets and only a 27' and Foy just rigged it directly to the grid. I got to be the guy to take it all down after the run. Your fly tower is probably 2-3 times that high so it would take a big lift unless you have a grid that you can walk out on. Rigging it out front is probably doable. The rig we got was in 2 sections. the front section involved a track that went a little beyond the width of the proscenium. That had a trolley that ran back and forth and a special geared pulley mechanism that allowed for the up and down to work consistently no matter where the Tolley is on the track. A pretty fancy machine. The other rig was your basic pulleys and aircraft cable with a rope attached to make it possible to operate by hand. There were 3 of these simple rigs in a straight line. They all just go up and down. The center one is used when Peter flys in the window. That involves a "stage dad's" jumping off of a ladder to get the momentum going. This set will probably need to be back stage because of the window bit, but the fancy part might work fine out front. You would have to build a place to hide the "stage dad's" pulling the ropes. That might need to be as big as 8' x 8', but you should check with the Foy guy.
	David M
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Mr. Lowell Celebrity Joined: 1/30/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 269	Posted: 5/07/10 at 8:54am
	Thanks for the good info, guys! One "problem" with my theatre is that, (to save money during construction), they "dead hung" the loft blocks from the roof I-beams instead of installing a grid! Argh...! I have a full-scale fly loft tower that is 66 feet high. Yes, there are construction-style Genie lifts that can reach 66 feet high. But I would rather not drive them onto the stage because I have a sprung dance floor that could get damaged. The only way to repair fouled rigging is for a professional rigger to clip onto the aircraft cables with a 5-point harness and walk out on another batten that is lashed off tight! I have seen a guy do it...and it's a real "butt pucker" ordeal. Argh...! So a crew like Foy or zfx would have to trim several of my battens at about 25 feet high and attach perpendicular pipes to create a lower gridwork. This would be a major pain. Besides, it would make it impossible to fly in my electrics, and as I mentioned, I would not be able to use all those "plum sexy" backdrops from Kenmark. So PLAN A would be to get Foy or another professional crew to dead-hang their gear from my proscenium catwalk...and then see if our "fly dad's" could hide inside my second-story box boom windows, (seen in the photo above, just in front of the speakers). Or PLAN B would be to convince the director to do the "flying" artistically, relying more on the audiences' imagination, instead of actually hanging our actors on wires. I think the audience has the imagination to "buy it" if done correctly, but the idea would be a hard sell to my director. We will see... Thanks, Dana Edited by Mr. Lowell - 5/26/10 at 11:41am
	Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School
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Mr. Lowell Celebrity Joined: 1/30/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 269	Posted: 5/07/10 at 8:56am
	By the way, in researching fly rigging for Peter Pan, I stumbled on this good article about the risks of flying kids. It includes a disturbing video of an actual accident! The poetic irony here is that you can hear a baby crying in the audience during all the chaos... http://backstageat.backstagejobs.com/?p=569 Edited by Mr. Lowell - 5/07/10 at 9:22am
	Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School
	IP Logged

Mr. Lowell Celebrity Joined: 1/30/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 269	Posted: 6/11/10 at 11:50am
	----- Original Message ---- PETER PAN will not be available for production in February 2011 due to a national tour. Chris Lonstrup, Samuel French, Inc.
	Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School
	IP Logged

Topic: PETER PAN - flying vs. backdrops( Topic Closed)