Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Seussian Dilemma

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da-nicole
Walk-On
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Joined: 3/08/10
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Topic: Seussian Dilemma
Posted: 3/08/10 at 9:34pm

Hi everyone,

I work at a small children's theatre company that is putting on a production of Seussical in late May. I am the director's assistant and this year I have been put in charge of the jungle backdrop. However, we are extremely low-budget and cannot afford a rental backdrop. We have decided to make our own backdrop, but I have little experience with painting on backdrop or what to use. We are also working in a small space (an elementary school stage).

I had some ideas, however. We have access to lots of cardboard, and I had the idea of painting large, brightly colored flowers, leaves and insects and attaching them to clear wire and dangling them from a pipe so they hang down at the very back of the stage, in front of a black backdrop that is spray-painted with a few neon leaves to add to the jungle. However, I'm not sure about this idea and I fear that it would look tacky if done incorrectly.

We have access to a lot of manpower (me and my classmates), however, I'm not sure what the best design method is for this project.

I'm wondering how difficult it would be to paint our own backdrop (painting on cloth, is it difficult? is there one type that is better than another, ect?) or if the cardboard idea would be suitable (it seems easiest and rather unique?)

Please leave your input, I appreciate it so much.

Nicole

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gelcat
Celebrity

Joined: 6/12/09
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106

Posted: 3/09/10 at 9:13am

Nicole,

I like your layered idea, do a search for cardboard on this site, and it should bring up the other discussions regarding cardboard uses, and how the cardboard should be treated for flame retardancy and such.

As far as the cloth curtain, what do you already have? You will want something that does not have a 'nap' to it, (velvet/corduroy/velour/fleece) optimally you will want a smooth cotton canvas that does not let light through, then you go down on options from there.

The biggest thing with painting on cloth is that you have it stretched tight when you paint it, and don't let it release until it is dry, or the fabric will do strange things. (though for Seussical, that might be kind of cool)

www.actorsguildonline.org
Actors Guild of Parkersburg
Parkersburg, WV

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pianocatkris10
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Joined: 3/08/10
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Posts: 0

Posted: 3/09/10 at 11:09am

I also like the idea of layering. Sicne Seussical is kind of a whimsical fairy-tale-ish story, I would consider doing some abstract backgrounds with alot of bright colors. Like maybe doing the big hanging flowers, then having the curtain/cloth/cardboard/whatever behind the flowers sponged & splashed with different bright colors, adding some vague impressionistic leaves. Or even beyond this - do the bright splashed backdrop with the flowers and then cut out some really big mushrooms from cardboard and paint them to look like mushroom houses. I'd definately stick to something very bright and cartoon-y. Star

-Kristen

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vickifrank
Celebrity

Joined: 9/21/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 332

Posted: 3/10/10 at 9:16am

I'd consider cutting the whimsical abstract seusical buildings and hills. They'd be easy and recognizable. You could paint them in similar colors to the books. One simple thing may be to cut the hills, but have flaps in them that open and characters look through giving you some alternate 'entrances' --of course after looking through they'd come around front. Even without the flaps, the larger hill type structures could give your stage interest and places to block actors entrances.

You asked about painting backdrops. You have two expenses in painting drops--the fabric and the paint. Many people size the material partly to save on paint. Or you can use dyes instead of paint. The cost the fabric is largely constrained by the size of the fabric. Muslins come very cheap up to 9 feet, but costs can go up from there. There are several threads here in the Community Greenroom about cheapest sources of muslin.

So what size backdrop are you looking for? There may be options at a discount. I know my company has several low cost alternatives including 1.) a few 'bargain' options--we are a bit low on that right now, but you never know. 2.) Panels that aren't full stage width that rent for a low cost...and then 3.) creative ways of getting by on a budget. Write me if interested.

Have you considered projecting--maybe on the back wall from a projector in the wings?

_____________

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com
1-800-359-2964

The theater scrim people

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Mr. Lowell
Celebrity

Joined: 1/30/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 269

Posted: 3/10/10 at 1:56pm

Hi Nicole,

Projections would be fast and cheap. Placement of screens without spill from your stage lights can be tricky, as well as mounting projectors without blocking audience sightlines or having keystoning problems. Try doing projections only if you have an adult who is a wiz at AV equipment, so you don't have to deal with those headaches yourself.

Cardboard is cheap and plentiful, but I rarely use it due to the fire hazards involved. You can add a little more flame retardant quality to corrigated cardboard by painting the back side with donated latex paint. About 75% of a can of cheap household paint is calcium carbonate, which is chalk, like in Tums. This slows the flashpoint of cardboard in case a piece leans against a hot light or something. Your local Walmart has a house brand of white latex for $7.95 a gallon. Get an 8-pack of disposable roller covers at a buck apiece and have everyone base coat both sides of your cardboard in one afternoon. Then once everything has that first coat of white, not only will you have a little flame resistance, but your more expensive colorful paint won't have to soak in so deep, so you use less.

Muslin is cheap and easy to work with. It usually comes with FR treatment already soaked into it. (I could give some large scraps that would fit in a small cafetorium stage, but I'm afraid I would take away business from all the vendors that give helpful hints on this forum). So hit up your stage moms and tech dads to help buy some custom fit muslin drops for your space. (Then you can store them away and repeat the show every three years).

By the way, I did Seussical a couple years ago and it was a blast! I recommend you get inspiration from the Seuss books and have your kids do all the painting themselves as part of the overall stagecraft experience. I have pictures of my middle school production elsewhere on this forum, but I almost fear to show them to you since I did have a budget for rented drops and tons of spray foam....but here it is...maybe you can get ideas for colors and ideas for simple props:

http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3034

Good luck with your show and be sure to keep us updated! -Dana

Edited by Mr. Lowell - 3/10/10 at 7:43pm

Mr. Lowell,
Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director,
for the Linda Sloan Theatre,
in the Davison Center for the Arts,
at Greensboro Day School

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tech_director
Star
Star

Joined: 10/19/08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 53

Posted: 3/15/10 at 10:23pm

Why not try photocopying a "scenery" page from a Seuss book, make a transparency, put it onto an overhead projector and trace an image onto your backdrop. Most Seuss images are black and white. Use cyc lights to change it to whatever color you need for each scene.

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JazPainter
Player
Player

Joined: 3/16/10
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15

Posted: 3/16/10 at 4:41pm

Hi!

I agree with projecting images, and painting them from there. There is a man whose a memeber of this site: George Pettie, who has a whole webpage about how to use cardboard, how to paint it w/o it warping, etc. Very helpful.

Painting a backdrop is tricky w/o having a space to staple it down and size it. But, you could do 4x8 sections. Make one frame, staple the muslin onto the frame, size it w/ watered down glue or starch, paint it, take it off, and do the next 4x8 section. Then, at the theater hang them next to each other, and with a Seuss production, the images can be independent, they don't have to be painted to line up exactly!

Lastly, I just opened a rental company if your interested in going that route, for less money - about $150 for a 10x20 plus shipping.

But really, having the kids paint it makes it such a fabulous experience for them!!

Good luck, sounds fun!!

Edited by JazPainter - 3/16/10 at 4:42pm

Jasmine
www.BlueAppleScenic.Wordpress.com

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DonnaFromCobalt
Player
Player

Joined: 9/24/09
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17

Posted: 12/10/10 at 3:33pm

Sometimes when I hear people say that they can't afford to rent a backdrop and want to make one themselves instead, I have to mention that you have to consider the cost of your materials, the space in which to paint it and your time. Depending on the size of the backdrop and if you have it professionally sewn, the materials (fabric and paint) can cost you considerably more than renting a backdrop. On average, the cost of materials can range from $400 to $800. Then you have to find the clear floor or wall space to paint it. Then, you have to consider your labor time (volunteer and / or professional). Is it worth all that?

Sometimes, it maybe more worthwhile just to rent the backdrop and have it delivered.

Donna Wymore
backdrop rental manager
Cobalt Studios

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David McCall
Celebrity

Joined: 1/28/09
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 299

Posted: 12/12/10 at 11:45am

I just did this show with platforms and cardboard. Everybody liked the set, but it doesn't fare well against your set :-( I do keep trying though. Seussical pictures

Working with cardboard has it's good and bad points, but I found a company that makes it that was willing to give us lots of fairly large sheets. We mostly painted it all with Rosco Super Saturated paint with flame retardant added. Very little projrctions this time because our "old school" directer keeps wanting to put stuff between my projecter (booth) and the cyc.

We kept most of the pieces in case someone in the area (near Boston. MA USA) wanted them as a start.

David M

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
da-nicole Walk-On Joined: 3/08/10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: Seussian Dilemma Posted: 3/08/10 at 9:34pm
	Hi everyone, I work at a small children's theatre company that is putting on a production of Seussical in late May. I am the director's assistant and this year I have been put in charge of the jungle backdrop. However, we are extremely low-budget and cannot afford a rental backdrop. We have decided to make our own backdrop, but I have little experience with painting on backdrop or what to use. We are also working in a small space (an elementary school stage). I had some ideas, however. We have access to lots of cardboard, and I had the idea of painting large, brightly colored flowers, leaves and insects and attaching them to clear wire and dangling them from a pipe so they hang down at the very back of the stage, in front of a black backdrop that is spray-painted with a few neon leaves to add to the jungle. However, I'm not sure about this idea and I fear that it would look tacky if done incorrectly. We have access to a lot of manpower (me and my classmates), however, I'm not sure what the best design method is for this project. I'm wondering how difficult it would be to paint our own backdrop (painting on cloth, is it difficult? is there one type that is better than another, ect?) or if the cardboard idea would be suitable (it seems easiest and rather unique?) Please leave your input, I appreciate it so much. Nicole

	IP Logged

gelcat Celebrity Joined: 6/12/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 106	Posted: 3/09/10 at 9:13am
	Nicole, I like your layered idea, do a search for cardboard on this site, and it should bring up the other discussions regarding cardboard uses, and how the cardboard should be treated for flame retardancy and such. As far as the cloth curtain, what do you already have? You will want something that does not have a 'nap' to it, (velvet/corduroy/velour/fleece) optimally you will want a smooth cotton canvas that does not let light through, then you go down on options from there. The biggest thing with painting on cloth is that you have it stretched tight when you paint it, and don't let it release until it is dry, or the fabric will do strange things. (though for Seussical, that might be kind of cool)
	www.actorsguildonline.org Actors Guild of Parkersburg Parkersburg, WV
	IP Logged

pianocatkris10 Walk-On Joined: 3/08/10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 3/09/10 at 11:09am
	I also like the idea of layering. Sicne Seussical is kind of a whimsical fairy-tale-ish story, I would consider doing some abstract backgrounds with alot of bright colors. Like maybe doing the big hanging flowers, then having the curtain/cloth/cardboard/whatever behind the flowers sponged & splashed with different bright colors, adding some vague impressionistic leaves. Or even beyond this - do the bright splashed backdrop with the flowers and then cut out some really big mushrooms from cardboard and paint them to look like mushroom houses. I'd definately stick to something very bright and cartoon-y.
	-Kristen
	IP Logged

vickifrank Celebrity Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332	Posted: 3/10/10 at 9:16am
	I'd consider cutting the whimsical abstract seusical buildings and hills. They'd be easy and recognizable. You could paint them in similar colors to the books. One simple thing may be to cut the hills, but have flaps in them that open and characters look through giving you some alternate 'entrances' --of course after looking through they'd come around front. Even without the flaps, the larger hill type structures could give your stage interest and places to block actors entrances. You asked about painting backdrops. You have two expenses in painting drops--the fabric and the paint. Many people size the material partly to save on paint. Or you can use dyes instead of paint. The cost the fabric is largely constrained by the size of the fabric. Muslins come very cheap up to 9 feet, but costs can go up from there. There are several threads here in the Community Greenroom about cheapest sources of muslin. So what size backdrop are you looking for? There may be options at a discount. I know my company has several low cost alternatives including 1.) a few 'bargain' options--we are a bit low on that right now, but you never know. 2.) Panels that aren't full stage width that rent for a low cost...and then 3.) creative ways of getting by on a budget. Write me if interested. Have you considered projecting--maybe on the back wall from a projector in the wings?
	_____________ http://www.studio-productions-inc.com 1-800-359-2964 The theater scrim people
	IP Logged

Mr. Lowell Celebrity Joined: 1/30/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 269	Posted: 3/10/10 at 1:56pm
	Hi Nicole, Projections would be fast and cheap. Placement of screens without spill from your stage lights can be tricky, as well as mounting projectors without blocking audience sightlines or having keystoning problems. Try doing projections only if you have an adult who is a wiz at AV equipment, so you don't have to deal with those headaches yourself. Cardboard is cheap and plentiful, but I rarely use it due to the fire hazards involved. You can add a little more flame retardant quality to corrigated cardboard by painting the back side with donated latex paint. About 75% of a can of cheap household paint is calcium carbonate, which is chalk, like in Tums. This slows the flashpoint of cardboard in case a piece leans against a hot light or something. Your local Walmart has a house brand of white latex for $7.95 a gallon. Get an 8-pack of disposable roller covers at a buck apiece and have everyone base coat both sides of your cardboard in one afternoon. Then once everything has that first coat of white, not only will you have a little flame resistance, but your more expensive colorful paint won't have to soak in so deep, so you use less. Muslin is cheap and easy to work with. It usually comes with FR treatment already soaked into it. (I could give some large scraps that would fit in a small cafetorium stage, but I'm afraid I would take away business from all the vendors that give helpful hints on this forum). So hit up your stage moms and tech dads to help buy some custom fit muslin drops for your space. (Then you can store them away and repeat the show every three years). By the way, I did Seussical a couple years ago and it was a blast! I recommend you get inspiration from the Seuss books and have your kids do all the painting themselves as part of the overall stagecraft experience. I have pictures of my middle school production elsewhere on this forum, but I almost fear to show them to you since I did have a budget for rented drops and tons of spray foam....but here it is...maybe you can get ideas for colors and ideas for simple props: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3034 Good luck with your show and be sure to keep us updated! -Dana Edited by Mr. Lowell - 3/10/10 at 7:43pm
	Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School
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tech_director Star Joined: 10/19/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 53	Posted: 3/15/10 at 10:23pm
	Why not try photocopying a "scenery" page from a Seuss book, make a transparency, put it onto an overhead projector and trace an image onto your backdrop. Most Seuss images are black and white. Use cyc lights to change it to whatever color you need for each scene.
	IP Logged

JazPainter Player Joined: 3/16/10 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 15	Posted: 3/16/10 at 4:41pm
	Hi! I agree with projecting images, and painting them from there. There is a man whose a memeber of this site: George Pettie, who has a whole webpage about how to use cardboard, how to paint it w/o it warping, etc. Very helpful. Painting a backdrop is tricky w/o having a space to staple it down and size it. But, you could do 4x8 sections. Make one frame, staple the muslin onto the frame, size it w/ watered down glue or starch, paint it, take it off, and do the next 4x8 section. Then, at the theater hang them next to each other, and with a Seuss production, the images can be independent, they don't have to be painted to line up exactly! Lastly, I just opened a rental company if your interested in going that route, for less money - about $150 for a 10x20 plus shipping. But really, having the kids paint it makes it such a fabulous experience for them!! Good luck, sounds fun!! Edited by JazPainter - 3/16/10 at 4:42pm
	Jasmine www.BlueAppleScenic.Wordpress.com
	IP Logged

DonnaFromCobalt Player Joined: 9/24/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 17	Posted: 12/10/10 at 3:33pm
	Sometimes when I hear people say that they can't afford to rent a backdrop and want to make one themselves instead, I have to mention that you have to consider the cost of your materials, the space in which to paint it and your time. Depending on the size of the backdrop and if you have it professionally sewn, the materials (fabric and paint) can cost you considerably more than renting a backdrop. On average, the cost of materials can range from $400 to $800. Then you have to find the clear floor or wall space to paint it. Then, you have to consider your labor time (volunteer and / or professional). Is it worth all that? Sometimes, it maybe more worthwhile just to rent the backdrop and have it delivered.
	Donna Wymore backdrop rental manager Cobalt Studios
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 12/12/10 at 11:45am
	I just did this show with platforms and cardboard. Everybody liked the set, but it doesn't fare well against your set :-( I do keep trying though. Seussical pictures Working with cardboard has it's good and bad points, but I found a company that makes it that was willing to give us lots of fairly large sheets. We mostly painted it all with Rosco Super Saturated paint with flame retardant added. Very little projrctions this time because our "old school" directer keeps wanting to put stuff between my projecter (booth) and the cyc. We kept most of the pieces in case someone in the area (near Boston. MA USA) wanted them as a start.
	David M
	IP Logged

Topic: Seussian Dilemma( Topic Closed)