Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Store front theaters

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rae524
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Topic: Store front theaters
Posted: 12/07/09 at 10:56pm

I'm on the board of a small community theater. We've been working in city owned buildings, but we're looking to move on to something both more permanent and more under our control. We are tossing around the idea of renting a storefront and putting in a theater there. Has anyone done this and have any tips? We'd love the input!

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Spectrum
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Posted: 12/09/09 at 12:34am

Converting a store front space to a theatre has its challenges, with the low ceilings and scarce restroom facilities, but it can be done. I've attended many a show in a successful store front theatre. It REALLY all boils down to how much you can get the owner of the building on board with your plans. Times are tough now, but if the economy comes back is the owner going to raise your rent to nosebleed levels because someone else is willing to pay more than you for that space and money is more important to him than creative outlet? If he loves the theatre and believes in what you're doing, he may forgo profit for art, but if it's "just business" you may find yourselves on the street again. Be careful. It's a lot of work for only staying a year or two. Good luck! I wish you well.

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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David McCall
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Posted: 12/09/09 at 11:55am

I had the thought of doing children's theater in a vacant mall store with the thought that parents could drop off the kids and go shopping. Then I decided that it was a bad thought. I still peek into vacant mall stores and consider how I would turn them into theaters. I think you would need a store with an outside exit so that people could get out after the mall was closed. You would be on your own for bathrooms after intermission. The good thing about a mall theater would be that you get a lot of foot traffic and a big window to advertise your show.

Another thought I had was to use one of the theaters in a multiplex movie theater. I was considering the concept of using the projector to provide the set and some of the lighting. It was another cool idea with many problems.

As for the economy getting better. The government has been printing way too much money with nothing to back it up. I think the coming inflation will have a negative effect on us. There is also a lot of pressure to tax our wealthier patrons into oblivion.

David M

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rae524
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Posted: 12/10/09 at 3:58pm

Thanks for the thoughts!

We're in Michigan, so I'm not concerned right now about any potential leasers wanting us out. Our city has a couple strip malls with lots of vacancies, so I would hope that the landlords would want anyone possible in there.

Good point about the restrooms, I hadn't thought of that.

Any other ideas?

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Spectrum
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Posted: 12/10/09 at 5:40pm

"Any other ideas?"

Well, some of the things that come to my mind immediately are to consider the location and everything that involves. Is it in a safe neighborhood? Is it near restaurants, convenient to get to, and safe to leave from late at night? Is it well maintained? Is there adequate parking and is that parking lot well lit? Remember, you want to make it SAFE and EASY for 60 to 120 people to visit this place regularly.

Then there are the utility services. Is there adequate electrical service to power your needs AS WELL AS any other businesses that may come to that strip mall in the future? Is the heating and air conditioning adequate to keep your audience fairly comfortable for two hours? And is the building insulated enough to make a difference with the utility bills? (Probably not.) Is there adequate water service to the building? Is there regular trash pick up service at this facility and do you, or the building owner pay for it?

Since it's a strip mall you are considering, they are notorious for leaky, flat roofs. Again, is the facility well maintained? And as I mentioned in a previous post, is the ceiling (or roof support structure) high enough off the floor to allow for lighting, a stage (unless you're going for the "black box" arrangement), and scenery? I have built many a set on a one foot high stage that was 8 feet 3 inches from the stage to the steel. It's usually no problem UNLESS you would like to go up THREE STEPS to another level on your stage. Tall people will be at the ceiling, so find somewhere with at least 12 feet (or more) of clearance. Keep in mind that also adds to the demands on your heating and air conditioning! And then there is the ever-present need for adequate restroom facilities.

Most strip malls have individual access to an "outside door" so David M's point should be available for each space. Will the owner have strict limitations on how much you can alter the interior of this space (wall locations, wall treatments and colors, steps, windows, wiring, etc.), or the exterior look (signs, logos, lights, decorations, etc.)? How much to insure it all? And how much is it going to take to satisfy city ordinances and demands?

Oh, yeah, BESIDES housing a box office/lobby (lobbette, as we would refer to the tiny lobby in one theatre I worked with), audience seating, tech booth, and stage, is this facility large enough to include an area for dressing room(s), makeup area (often in the dressing room), paint, lumber, and tool storage? Adequate prop storage is something EVERY theatre dreams about, so I'm leaving that out. It's always more than just seats and a stage, and again, you have to consider the electrical needs, heating, and air conditioning.

Well, that's pretty much all I can think of at the moment. The bottom line is I would recommend you visit the space and assess whether it will serve your organization's needs, from auditions through set strike, and beyond - ALL PHASES of producing a show. If it will meet those needs and you can see a way to afford it, I wish you great shows and full houses!

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
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Posted: 12/10/09 at 8:15pm

A thing we haved utalised with older run down shoping centres & wharehouse complexs, is to offer the owner to pay thier monthly outgoings only, as a form of lease/rent. In most of the situations they were happy to cove these & allow our tenacy, which also assisted the other tentants, by bring in more people to the complex.

However in one case we did so well lifting the profile & incressing the income of the shopping mall, the other tentants subsidised us to take on the management of the centre, as a cheaper option to them. But eventualy we enevertaly we got pushed out as it became more popular & they rents went up & it was sold off to new owners. We only had a month/month tenancy but we had saved enough to move to better premises.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Nanette
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Joined: 8/01/06
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Posted: 12/12/09 at 7:59am

I worked for a theatre that now uses a storefront in a stripmall. Happily, the director's husband is an architect so the design was well worked out between the two of them. They have a small lobby up front, and a good-sized rehearsal room (which doubles as extra space for open houses/parties, etc.). A long hallway leads to a blackbox-type theatre in the rear. The dressing rooms are behind the stage area. Bathroom are also in the rear and accessible from the dressing rooms or theatre area. Storage, unfortunately, is non-existant so everything is in a seperate storage unit elsewhere. They have nothing but sold-out shows and have upped their profits from their former location dramatically.

In a world of margarine, be butter!

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
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Posts: 1181

Posted: 12/12/09 at 7:07pm

Eons ago here, back in the 70's a group converted an old hardware shop, into a theatre. The shop hade a store room & residents at the rear. The shopfront was on a main road in the city, with an old 'dunny [toilet] soil cart' acess lane at the rear. http://www.dhub.org/object/8738,talk

They knocked a hole in through the dividing wall, from the rear of the shop to the store room, which became the stage. The front shop was the auditorium & foyer.

The first show they did was an music hall variety production, which was dubbed the 'Old Time Music Hole'. The show ran for 8 performances a week for almost 20 years, becoming known just as the "old time music hall', of which they opened up another 'Music Hall' & 'Diamond Lills wild west saloon' & a 'Dirty Dicks' old english Banquet Hall here and in another State.

All of these venues were shopfront converted to Dinner Showtheatres.

I worked at various venues which became proeatre & part of the Frank Baden Powell Enterprises, but eventualy old Frank fell off the perch & turned up his clogs. His eastate wound it up & all that remains is the new 'Hole In The Wall' proeatre today.

The only shop front theatre I know of was for a production of 'Steel Magnolias'. That utalised an actual ladies hair salon to perform the show in. The shop could only hold 17 bums on seat punters, as it was working ladies hairdressers during the day & sety up for the show at night. This swas in a bush town in the eastern states. While they could only have 17 booked seats, they did sell tickets so the overflow punters could watch the show, through the shop window from the street.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Author	Message
rae524 Walk-On Joined: 12/07/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: Store front theaters Posted: 12/07/09 at 10:56pm
	I'm on the board of a small community theater. We've been working in city owned buildings, but we're looking to move on to something both more permanent and more under our control. We are tossing around the idea of renting a storefront and putting in a theater there. Has anyone done this and have any tips? We'd love the input!

	IP Logged

Spectrum Celebrity Joined: 4/16/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 12/09/09 at 12:34am
	Converting a store front space to a theatre has its challenges, with the low ceilings and scarce restroom facilities, but it can be done. I've attended many a show in a successful store front theatre. It REALLY all boils down to how much you can get the owner of the building on board with your plans. Times are tough now, but if the economy comes back is the owner going to raise your rent to nosebleed levels because someone else is willing to pay more than you for that space and money is more important to him than creative outlet? If he loves the theatre and believes in what you're doing, he may forgo profit for art, but if it's "just business" you may find yourselves on the street again. Be careful. It's a lot of work for only staying a year or two. Good luck! I wish you well.
	Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 12/09/09 at 11:55am
	I had the thought of doing children's theater in a vacant mall store with the thought that parents could drop off the kids and go shopping. Then I decided that it was a bad thought. I still peek into vacant mall stores and consider how I would turn them into theaters. I think you would need a store with an outside exit so that people could get out after the mall was closed. You would be on your own for bathrooms after intermission. The good thing about a mall theater would be that you get a lot of foot traffic and a big window to advertise your show. Another thought I had was to use one of the theaters in a multiplex movie theater. I was considering the concept of using the projector to provide the set and some of the lighting. It was another cool idea with many problems. As for the economy getting better. The government has been printing way too much money with nothing to back it up. I think the coming inflation will have a negative effect on us. There is also a lot of pressure to tax our wealthier patrons into oblivion.
	David M
	IP Logged

rae524 Walk-On Joined: 12/07/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 12/10/09 at 3:58pm
	Thanks for the thoughts! We're in Michigan, so I'm not concerned right now about any potential leasers wanting us out. Our city has a couple strip malls with lots of vacancies, so I would hope that the landlords would want anyone possible in there. Good point about the restrooms, I hadn't thought of that. Any other ideas?
	IP Logged

Spectrum Celebrity Joined: 4/16/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 12/10/09 at 5:40pm
	"Any other ideas?" Well, some of the things that come to my mind immediately are to consider the location and everything that involves. Is it in a safe neighborhood? Is it near restaurants, convenient to get to, and safe to leave from late at night? Is it well maintained? Is there adequate parking and is that parking lot well lit? Remember, you want to make it SAFE and EASY for 60 to 120 people to visit this place regularly. Then there are the utility services. Is there adequate electrical service to power your needs AS WELL AS any other businesses that may come to that strip mall in the future? Is the heating and air conditioning adequate to keep your audience fairly comfortable for two hours? And is the building insulated enough to make a difference with the utility bills? (Probably not.) Is there adequate water service to the building? Is there regular trash pick up service at this facility and do you, or the building owner pay for it? Since it's a strip mall you are considering, they are notorious for leaky, flat roofs. Again, is the facility well maintained? And as I mentioned in a previous post, is the ceiling (or roof support structure) high enough off the floor to allow for lighting, a stage (unless you're going for the "black box" arrangement), and scenery? I have built many a set on a one foot high stage that was 8 feet 3 inches from the stage to the steel. It's usually no problem UNLESS you would like to go up THREE STEPS to another level on your stage. Tall people will be at the ceiling, so find somewhere with at least 12 feet (or more) of clearance. Keep in mind that also adds to the demands on your heating and air conditioning! And then there is the ever-present need for adequate restroom facilities. Most strip malls have individual access to an "outside door" so David M's point should be available for each space. Will the owner have strict limitations on how much you can alter the interior of this space (wall locations, wall treatments and colors, steps, windows, wiring, etc.), or the exterior look (signs, logos, lights, decorations, etc.)? How much to insure it all? And how much is it going to take to satisfy city ordinances and demands? Oh, yeah, BESIDES housing a box office/lobby (lobbette, as we would refer to the tiny lobby in one theatre I worked with), audience seating, tech booth, and stage, is this facility large enough to include an area for dressing room(s), makeup area (often in the dressing room), paint, lumber, and tool storage? Adequate prop storage is something EVERY theatre dreams about, so I'm leaving that out. It's always more than just seats and a stage, and again, you have to consider the electrical needs, heating, and air conditioning. Well, that's pretty much all I can think of at the moment. The bottom line is I would recommend you visit the space and assess whether it will serve your organization's needs, from auditions through set strike, and beyond - ALL PHASES of producing a show. If it will meet those needs and you can see a way to afford it, I wish you great shows and full houses!
	Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 12/10/09 at 8:15pm
	A thing we haved utalised with older run down shoping centres & wharehouse complexs, is to offer the owner to pay thier monthly outgoings only, as a form of lease/rent. In most of the situations they were happy to cove these & allow our tenacy, which also assisted the other tentants, by bring in more people to the complex. However in one case we did so well lifting the profile & incressing the income of the shopping mall, the other tentants subsidised us to take on the management of the centre, as a cheaper option to them. But eventualy we enevertaly we got pushed out as it became more popular & they rents went up & it was sold off to new owners. We only had a month/month tenancy but we had saved enough to move to better premises.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Nanette Celebrity Joined: 8/01/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399	Posted: 12/12/09 at 7:59am
	I worked for a theatre that now uses a storefront in a stripmall. Happily, the director's husband is an architect so the design was well worked out between the two of them. They have a small lobby up front, and a good-sized rehearsal room (which doubles as extra space for open houses/parties, etc.). A long hallway leads to a blackbox-type theatre in the rear. The dressing rooms are behind the stage area. Bathroom are also in the rear and accessible from the dressing rooms or theatre area. Storage, unfortunately, is non-existant so everything is in a seperate storage unit elsewhere. They have nothing but sold-out shows and have upped their profits from their former location dramatically.
	In a world of margarine, be butter!
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 12/12/09 at 7:07pm
	Eons ago here, back in the 70's a group converted an old hardware shop, into a theatre. The shop hade a store room & residents at the rear. The shopfront was on a main road in the city, with an old 'dunny [toilet] soil cart' acess lane at the rear. http://www.dhub.org/object/8738,talk They knocked a hole in through the dividing wall, from the rear of the shop to the store room, which became the stage. The front shop was the auditorium & foyer. The first show they did was an music hall variety production, which was dubbed the 'Old Time Music Hole'. The show ran for 8 performances a week for almost 20 years, becoming known just as the "old time music hall', of which they opened up another 'Music Hall' & 'Diamond Lills wild west saloon' & a 'Dirty Dicks' old english Banquet Hall here and in another State. All of these venues were shopfront converted to Dinner Showtheatres. I worked at various venues which became proeatre & part of the Frank Baden Powell Enterprises, but eventualy old Frank fell off the perch & turned up his clogs. His eastate wound it up & all that remains is the new 'Hole In The Wall' proeatre today. The only shop front theatre I know of was for a production of 'Steel Magnolias'. That utalised an actual ladies hair salon to perform the show in. The shop could only hold 17 bums on seat punters, as it was working ladies hairdressers during the day & sety up for the show at night. This swas in a bush town in the eastern states. While they could only have 17 booked seats, they did sell tickets so the overflow punters could watch the show, through the shop window from the street.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Topic: Store front theaters( Topic Closed)