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mark_j
Lead Joined: 11/28/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 31 |
Topic: Mic Options Posted: 10/29/08 at 3:48pm |
Hi Everybody (pardon the wordy post),
I work at a small high school and they know I do a lot of sound designing for the local community theater. I was asked if I have any suggestions for upgrading the mics for our high school productions. The theater space is an old style gymnasium with procenium stage (~34'x20' visible). Also they usually put up an 8' extension on the stage wich is basically like a series of 4' tall tables. There is also a second story walkway in back that can double as a small balcony. At the moment they are using 4 Audio Technica AT873R mics to pick up sound. Bare with me and I'll go through the options I have considered.
First option: overhead mics (i.e. Audio Technica Pro 45 at $80). I'm guessing these will give the most coverage for the money, but they won't cover the stage extension.
Secondly: body mics (Azden Dual Lavalier VHF at $320 or ATW-701 UHF at $270). These are expensive and will only pick up the individual singers.
Third: boundary mics (Nady CBM40 at $53 or Crown PC160 at $277). The zonal coverage will be nice. These mics could be positioned on the apron, but will it be too noisy?
Fourth: more AT873Rs. Use more of them to fill in the coverage.
Lastly: shotgun mics (SMX-10 at $68 or AT8035 at $234). A pair of these could be mounted to the balcony railing however I think the distance between the stage and railing would create too much interference for enhancement. However, the plus side is that they could be positioned to cover the stage extension and repositioned to cover the risers during concerts.
Anyway, those are my options. Any opinions on what combinations you think would work best is welcome. My guess is it will be a combination of overheads and boundaries, but I'd like more input.
Thanks,
Mark J.
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skoehler
Lead Joined: 5/19/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
Posted: 10/30/08 at 12:14pm |
I have always liked using wireless mics (although I much prefer the newer over the ear mics to lavaliers) for all soloists and anyone with lines (mostly for mixing purposes), and floor mics. The floor mics can pick up a chorus very well, and can be used in non-musicals to boost weaker performers, leaving the wireless mics for musicals only.
I have never had any luck with overhead mics, but perhaps I just never used them to their fullest potential. The investment in wireless mics is pretty hefty, but if you do go that way be sure to purchase the higher quality, this is not a place to pinch pennies. The lower range mics are almost worthless, invest in quality, you'll save a lot of headaches. |
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Steven Koehler
Managing Director Civic Theatre of Greater Lafayette www.lafayettecivic.org |
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belle
Star Joined: 9/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 75 |
Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:08pm |
Don't be afraid to invest in just a few wireless mics and add more later. We pass mics from one performer to another since in musicals only 3 or fewer people sing at once.
You have to practice these passes and often have someone help with getting the mic on, but it can work. We have 10 now but did shows with only 3 to start with.
We bought quality, and they have lasted. We train actors/dressers in how to handle the mics--that's a must. I am an absolute bear about correct handling. Just telling people how much they cost will often make them more careful.
You might consider asking a service organization to donate for mics. They are often looking for projects, especially ones that help kids.
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Sledge
Walk-On Joined: 10/17/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
Posted: 10/30/08 at 7:55pm |
Hello Mark
I echo belle and sloehler in their advice to buy quality. It is a waste of time and money to buy low-end budget products (sometimes even from well respected manufacturers). This only leads to frustration, productions that don't work as well as setting low budget expectations when the time to replace those budget mics (quickly) comes.
I find a set of quality headworn wireless mics to be indispensible for delivering critical parts with clarity. Your highschool staff will notice the quality difference. I have been satisfied with the performance of Countryman's E6 headworn line. If budget dictates, they can be combined with a quality mid-line/mid priced wireless system providing tons of performance for the dollar. There are other brands of headworn mics that do a great job as well.
Its difficult to pick one type of mic over the other though, since each type has a very specialized use. Its hard to beat a quality overhead for miking groups of singers. I have used Shure MX202 miniature overheads with success. In black, they virtually disapear and they are very easy to "fish pole" rig to hang out over difficult areas such as your extended apron. If the budget dollars are just not there and you are not able to purchase a variety of mic types - quality overheads used properly are a good and versatile way to go.
Unless the temp apron is very solidly built, I would hesitate to use boundary mics due to vibration concerns, but they certainly are usable in the right situation. Again, low-quality "budget" versions are wasted money.
As a worthy future project, if your school sound system has not been professionally designed, installed and tuned, it may be worthwhile to encourage the school to pursue this. Sometimes it is easier to include a group of quality mics within a full-system quote than to fight your way up over time to a system that is an all around good performer (this can be very difficult if you are starting with a compliment of inadequate equipment in the first place).
Shure has a decent microphone guide for theater applications at the link below:
Good luck with your new gear acquisition!
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JoeMc
Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832 |
Posted: 10/30/08 at 9:33pm |
Not being one of the 'nios bois, in this game, I know sweet Fanny Adams about audio, so can't help that much?
But a few basic things may help to be remembered, why using Radio [wireless] Mic's.
In comeatre it is a good idea to have the luvvies, rehearse with the complete radio mic set up. Especially when radio Talk Back & ear monitoring systems are to be used by the crew, under show conditions. There is a lot of reasons for this including the performers becoming used to them & not wanting to turn them off & forgetting to switch them back on again. This is why it is a good tip to have a techie back stage to control the disciplined use of them, as well as one in the audio booth controlling the whole system where multiple radio channels are used. Further if you use the whole system during rehearsals, the director can alter blocking, if problems occur. With actors wearing radio Mic's, proximity cancellation can occur when the sound from one is picked up from their Mic & also picked by another actors Mic later. These two signals can cancel each other out at the mixer. So the director needs to be aware if this happens & either reblock or reposition the Mic's on the actors. Or get the sound tech to take one out of the Mic during that that moment. Check out the location of your venue for any possible interference from other nearby sources. That your system is not sharing a channel with other entertainment venues in very close proximity. Which is always a good idea to scope out the vicinity & check with other users in the immediate area, what channels they normally use & what time they are likely to be active. There isn't anything worse than during a dramatic pause in your performance, rock 'n roll music blares out over your system or other embarrassing audible situations.
Although your gear may boast to have a multiple channels, not all of them do necessarily will work. This is why it is far better to use them during rehearsals, than rely on just firing them during the show. As suggested quality will be remembered after the price is forgotten! So buy or hire the best gear, it will be cheaper in the long run.
The audio tech needs to be organised, with Mic usage running sheets & also the one back stage, to ensure the correct Mic is on the right actor, ensure that belt packs are recharged or fresh batteries are used at the beginning of the show & have a spare set available back stage to swap out, if one of the Mic's decides to take a holiday. By having a strict regime of operations, this will give confidence to the warm props, not to turn their Mic's off. Because the audio crew are competent to control the radio Mic set up, So some little luvvie does not accidentally, give out any intimate secrets won't be aired in public over the system, while they are in the dressing room or in the dunny [loo].
They are susceptible to sweat on the mike capsule & where you can get flash coloured face Mic's, which become unobtrusive & a natural part of the actors make up, by wearing them during rehearsals.
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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
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skoehler
Lead Joined: 5/19/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
Posted: 10/31/08 at 10:29am |
I have put neoprene padding under floor mics and they seem to act well as shock absorbers, taking away a lot of the issues of vibrating staging. Of course this was also usually on a pretty sturdy stages, so not sure how well it would work in all situations.
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Steven Koehler
Managing Director Civic Theatre of Greater Lafayette www.lafayettecivic.org |
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jlongman
Walk-On Joined: 1/21/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Posted: 1/21/09 at 4:01pm |
If you use boundry mics try sitting them on mousepads. always worked for me and I pick them up in the 99cent store.....
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TimmyP1955
Lead Joined: 12/30/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
Posted: 1/02/10 at 4:16pm |
http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmpsm.htm (with wireless) on the principals (one of the few bargains when it comes to mics).
http://www.bartlettmics.com or http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/mics/101062.pdf on the lip. http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/5ef0e5beb547be51/index.html overhead - if you can hide them (another bargain). Your guess is as good as mine on micro hanging mics. |
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skyguy
Walk-On Joined: 1/26/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Posted: 4/02/10 at 7:23pm |
jlongman's mousepad suggestion does work well. I wouldn't use much thicker material than that. Considering the wavelength of a 10kHz signal is 1.35 inches, a mic element sitting any higher than that will have phase cancellations due to reflections from the stage at any frequency above that.
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors please?
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Bruce Bartlett
Walk-On Joined: 1/22/11 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Posted: 1/22/11 at 10:27am |
Skyguy is right. As you raise a boundary microphone off the stage floor, the frequency response changes drastically. It may be a high-frequency rolloff or an upper-midrange dip.
Floor mics are not very sensitive to mechanical floor vibrations because their mic diaphragm is vertical, so vertical vibrations of the stage floor do not move the diaphragm in and out. The mics still pick up footsteps acoustically, as your ears do. If you stand in front of the stage, and you can hear footsteps, the microphones will too. Some wardrobe people put rubber soles on the actors' hard shoes to reduce foot noise. To test how much mechanical floor vibrations your floor mic is picking up, have someone walk around on stage in rubber-soled shoes. Pick up the mic 1/4" off the stage floor as the person is walking, and see if you hear any change in volume over the house speakers. If not, the mic is insensitive to mechanical floor vibrations. Hope this helps. Edited by Bruce Bartlett - 1/22/11 at 12:24pm |
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http://www.bartlettmics.com
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