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Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound |
Topic: Which is better ...( Topic Closed) | |
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Scott B
Celebrity Joined: 12/08/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 239 |
Topic: Which is better ... Posted: 10/05/08 at 5:32pm |
A pit made up of one decent accompanist and percussion and mediocre keyboard player ... or go with canned music if possible.
I've found through the years that a bad pit can really detract from the show. On the other hand ... a good pit you almost don't notice because it fits right in. I have no idea how many small community theatres ... as in they don't even have the population to get a good pit ... use canned music. I did see a version of High School Musical put on by a local high school ... and the BEST part of the show was the fact that they used canned music. So if you wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts if you've ever used it. Thanks - |
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TonyDi
Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325 |
Posted: 10/06/08 at 7:43am |
Personally - and I hate to say this as I have MANY working musician friends....but I like canned music for a lot of reasons. Reason number one is the cost of hiring enough pieces to have a good full sound when hiring a lot of musicians would cost significantly more - even based on BASIC union scale pay. THEN you have the canned music at the beginning of the production, start to finish, it never takes a break, never gets sick, never is late, never is OFF key because they're having a bad night, never complains, drinks NO coffee, flirts with NONE of the women in the show, doesn't smoke funny cigarettes, doesn't require food, pay, cold drinks, ashtrays, pats on the back, has no ego, no expectations, no attitudes, etc., etc., I COULD go on but you get the drift by now I hope. I like it because while it does put a lot of full time working musicians out of work often, it DOES provide for a smaller company who could never afford a full orchestra the chance to have one at a radically less costly figure. Couple that with all the things I said above and it's really hard to beat. GRANTED I LOVE LIVE orchestration - makes a much warmer, richer, in-your-chest kind of feel - but who can afford them anymore!! I know that the singers onstage HAVE TO KNOW their part as mistakes cannot be covered by a responsive orchestra but it's theater karaoke - and I KNOW that's reviled by many people. But in a pinch when needed and nothing else can be afforded, I opt for that. I've used canned stuff at least a half dozen times or more on shows and the only complaint I ever get is from lazy actors who don't do their job and prepare. BUT they have the music from the beginning to learn with, rehearse with, practice with, it CAN be altered in key, nuance, timing, cuts, vamps (have to count them) and so forth. Often they have to "fit" the dialouge into the amount of time they know they have in the canned vamps and such, but that's just a matter of getting used to it. PLUS with midi files, vamps can be added, amended, altered, shortened (rarely a need to shorten them) or whatever it takes. Volumes can be balanced because it's pre-recorded so a good sound guy and a decent mixer is about all it takes....or you can run it right out of a computer as I've done numerous times. Nice just to sit there and punch the ENTER or RETURN key on a computer or with a mouse click START or whatever you need done.
Just my opinions but having used them and liking the idea I could have a nice, full orchestra, in pitch, on time, perfect timing, well it's good when there is nothing else that can be afforded. But it takes some work to sequence a whole show that isn't available and the cost CAN be a bit prohibitive to start. But to me it's always been worth it. And I must say the last time I saw Phantom or Les Miz come through on Broadway series touring shows locally, the PIT is FAR less populated anymore and now sports 6 keyboards, a good percussionist and a computer or two or four!! So they of course, are feeling the pinch of the expense of hiring live people when the technology is so good that you can almost NOT tell anymore what is canned and what's live unless you have an INCREDIBLY good ear...and I don't. I'm just glad to have a full orchestra - of however many pieces I might want. If I want 50 first violins I can have them and so on and so forth. But it's MY opinion and I've always liked using canned stuff because it works for me.
TonyDi
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"Almost famous"
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skoehler
Lead Joined: 5/19/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
Posted: 10/06/08 at 11:58am |
TonyDi brings up many wonderful points, and honestly it is hard to disagree. Professional musicians are expensive, and many of us have felt the anger when 11 o'clock comes around during tech week and they start packing up, even is you are still working. That is all true.
But I also have to say, and for full disclosure I am married to a professional musician (yes theatre and music as our careers, our parents are so proud...and worried) and have come to appreciate the many things that the good ones do bring to the table. First, they have invested a lot of time and money perfecting their talent. A good one is well worth the money. But even that is not my top reason for live music. I find that live music from the pit has many of the strengths that we preach about live theatre vs video. The live experience cannot be beat and a pit full of real musicians add many intangibles to the production. Of course there are also the logistical reasons, singer drops a line, set change takes too long, etc. I have worked a professional production with canned music where an acotr forgot a prop that was key to a line delivered. Yes the actor should have checked, but this was a 50 show run, and he just had a slight slip during a long run, happens to all of us. The problem was that without the prop, the lines were moot, so his choice was to either stand like an idiot wating for the right moment in the canned music, or make somehting up. Needless to say the song was a disaster, live musicians might not have been able to cover any better, but with the canned music we were stuck with 5 measures of silence and awkwardness. When it comes down to it, it is up to you. Both choices have thier streengths and weaknesses, you have to choose what will work best for your production, and budget. Let us know what you do and how it goes. |
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Steven Koehler
Managing Director Civic Theatre of Greater Lafayette www.lafayettecivic.org |
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JoeMc
Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832 |
Posted: 10/07/08 at 10:17pm |
This has nothing to do with the pro's or con's of canned v's live Muso's question.
I agree it costings to learn their craft & they should be rewarded for their endeavours. However on the other side of the same coin so should other trades in the theatre. Not wanting to get into drivel between artistic professions, as opposed to lowly trades bods in this game.
As a qualified sparky I had did a 5 year apprenticeship {[Well because of a computer stuff up, I may have cheated a bit?] as I was a manger of an Electrical Contracting Company, with a El Eng Degree] I did the 5 year exams in just over 12 months, because I was registered. somehow, as 3 separate persons, with the same name. So I sat & past all the 5 exams in the one week?}}.
The average pay for an electrician, these days on wages, is around $95/hour. Yet we do theatre without being paid & it is much the same for other trades back stage. Yet we must be qualified & licensed, which for me costs a $5000/year license fee.
A lot of the aspects of theatre has been taken over by computers in lighting/audio, but we still need to be fully licensed to work in electrical operations - Just thought I'd chuck this drivel in, as my haf'a tanners worth!
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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!} |
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Scott B
Celebrity Joined: 12/08/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 239 |
Posted: 10/08/08 at 11:33am |
We're in a very small rural area doing one musical a year. Actors are rehearsing 7 weeks and performing for another 2, so they've got over two months wrapped up in the production with no compensation at all. It would be nice to find at least 5 or 6 musicians who enjoyed theatre as much as the actors that would be willing to either donate their time or play for a bare minimum rate. (Sorry ... took my own thread off topic.)
I personally like the sound from a live pit, but I they're not very good (to the point of being distracting) then I would prefer to investigate the tracks as an option. I've given quite a bit of consideration of going with the piano, bass, percussion and two (maybe three) really good keyboard players. Still ... that's a lot of people for us. We'll see. |
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TimmyP1955
Lead Joined: 12/30/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 37 |
Posted: 1/02/10 at 4:33pm |
With the exception of the very best, a "PA" system is a poor excuse for a hi-fi, and canned music is seldom very engaging when heard through such a system - it can even be a distraction. The remedy is to have the canned music in multitrack form, so that each track can be processed and mixed in a manner that makes the most of the sound system at hand. I doubt that such tracks are readily available.
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