Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: SM out of control

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Dondero
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Joined: 5/04/08
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Topic: SM out of control
Posted: 5/04/08 at 1:07pm

Hi,

I'm new here, but I have a problem. My SM was visited upon me, first of all. They were ALWAYS late for rehearsal, they left me to close up afterwards, they didn't take blocking notes even though I asked, and wouldn't give line notes, because they didn't want to hurt anyones feelings.

Now we've opened, and they are going around countermanding things I've asked the actors and crew to do, saying 'it doesn't matter what the director told you to do, it's my show now'. Added wrinkle - their spouse is the lead, and I found out too late that they have depression, so anything I say may cause them both to walk.

I'm just at a loss to know what to do about this - my running crew and actors are complaining to me, but if I say anything to the SM, I risk losing my lead during the run.

OY!

And whoever came up with The Stage Manager is in charge after opening should have their head examined.

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B-M-D
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Joined: 11/03/05
Location: United States
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Posts: 346

Posted: 5/04/08 at 5:22pm

You're between a rock & hard place now my friend. You should have drawn the line in the sand early on in rehearsals and replaced both SM and lead when YOU had leverage. There was nothing you asked for that was out of the ordinary or unreasonable. And if your lead suffers from depression that badly perhaps acting isn't the best therapy for her.

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."

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Linda S
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Location: United States
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Posts: 312

Posted: 5/04/08 at 6:03pm

Agreed. You really can't do anything about replacing anybody now. The only thing you can try is to give a pep talk. Tell that they have rehearsed very hard to do things a certain way and that both you and the stage manager (Yes, include the stage manager as your right hand.) expect that the show will go as it was rehearsed. It is a little underhanded, but it is face saving way for you to get your point across without confrontation. At least everyone will know where you stand. It will make it harder for the the stage manager to undermine your show. Good luck.

Linda

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biggertigger
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Joined: 4/16/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 188

Posted: 5/04/08 at 10:34pm

Um, is it this time of year for crazed cast and crew members?

We have the opposite problem here with the director going crazy (during intermission they will mention lines they missed, blocking they missed, etc. Nothing detrimental to the show). I even had an actor approach me about feeling auckward about some blocking. My suggestion was to stop, take a beat before going to the next part of the blocking. The director threw a fit infront of me and the cast stating that if I have suggestions I should tell the director first. I was hired by the director to work with the cast and flesh out certain scenes, so I don't feel I was over stepping my bounds. The cast supports my side of the issue and believes that the director should drop off the face of the earth now that the show is on stage.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Linda has really hit the nail on the head. It is nice to know that the show will end at some point and you won't have to deal with this actor or stage manager unless you so chose.

Enjoy of what you can with what is left of this show and know in the future that your are wiser by it. Good Luck.

The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.

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jayzehr
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Joined: 8/11/05
Location: United States
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Posts: 537

Posted: 5/05/08 at 5:33am

I don't care how depressed s/he is, I don't think it's very likely at all that you're going to lose your lead during the run.

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Dondero
Walk-On
Walk-On

Joined: 5/04/08
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Posts: 1

Posted: 5/05/08 at 3:49pm

Thanks, everyone, for the insight. It's gotten worse, then it got better with the intervention of a board member who gave a gentle 'the director is in charge of the show, and the stage manager is in charge of opening the house, keeping times, and closing the house' talk to the cast.

Wild horses couldn't get me to work with this pair again . . .

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JoeMc
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Joined: 3/13/06
Location: Australia
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Posts: 832

Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:14am

G'donya at least it's another learning experiance?

Although I go along with jays post in as much as , the Leads ego would have have over riden any thing said to SM, which wass great getting someone else to lean on them.

I think my ego would have bounced the SM, even risking a hand in hand walk out.

It gets up my nose with theatre groups who tend to throw anyone into the SM job, if they are standing still too long.

I have just helped out 2 groups, who's techie could not do thier shows. This was the case in both productions, of grabbing anyone to SM, who bearly knows what's down, up or who's paying the bill?!

Yet the expectations for these is be a full bottle SM, without any training, just pionting them to the stage & giving them a script, hoping they will nut it out or at least have a script to read?

I mean the name 'stage Manager' is only an oxymoron anyway, if they manage to do it in the dark, it's enough!

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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spikesgirl
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Joined: 3/30/08
Location: United States
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Posts: 129

Posted: 5/06/08 at 11:37am

I'm going to chime in from an 'official' stage manager's postion. That's my job and I do it as best I can - it is indeed that the show 'belongs' to the stage manager after the show opens, but any SM worth their pay would not change any aspect of the show - technically, that's not my job. My job is to make sure the actors/tech perform the show that my director has given to me, not to make changes.

We currently have an SM who's out of control (the other resident SM and myself needed a break) and a director who won't rein her in. She has actually changed out props and 'adjusted' my set design to fulfill her needs. She's rude, quick to hassle someone when they've made a mistake, short on praise. Dondero, like you, she is married to one of the performing actors. The director is hesitant to reprimand her as her hubby is the lead in our next show. After confering with various sources, I will put my foot down for the next show (she signed up for two shows and the contract was approved prior to problems). She will not SM after the next show as we have had several of our techs tell us that they won't work with her again. Glad it's her job to get techs for the next show!

Charlie

Dondero - you're right. The greatest thing you can do for your mental health is to walk away from this pair. As director, you do have a say who you work with.

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ZFix1
Player
Player

Joined: 5/05/08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0

Posted: 5/06/08 at 2:02pm

There is also the fact that Theatre is a VERY close knit family. Word spreads fast, so the possibility they will destroy another productions morale will get slimmer and slimmer real fast. Most times I find that it doesn't matter how good the person can act or do tech, if they are a pain to work with, they don't get the gig.

If you can dream it, I can make it happen

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JoeMc
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Joined: 3/13/06
Location: Australia
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Posts: 832

Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:34pm

Good point Zfix1 with the theatre network. I have always related it to if you flush the toilet here in Perth [WA] theatre, you empty a bath in Sydney [NSW]!

Although it some 5000KM's away the word is past on like Chinese whispers ["Send 3 'n 4 pence we are going to a dance", instead of the real WWW1 message getting thru of "Send reinforcements we are going to advance"]

While the message about this duo may change of space & time. It will ring a bell when it comes to future appointments.

I agree the SM is God when the show is on the boards & the director fades into the back ground. Put he/she is still the puppet master in essence & does not completely evaporate.

As we don't pay any one here as a rule in Ameatre, we don't have contracts, all are appointed positions.

Also unlike the Pohms [British] & I assume there also, the position of Producer is regarded as being the theatre Groups management committee, not vested in an individual.

Each Director appoints their own production team, especially the SM.

This in it's self can be a draw back. Unless the Director has the empirical skills to realise the mechanics of a production. as there total focus when proposing a production is to get it on the boards. then worry about the insignificant things of Design & the logistics of how it comes about. The SM is regarded as just an after thought of "We really need to find a bod to be the SM [Not sure quite why, but it is traditional!"]. This is usually well into the rehearsal stage. but they have just realised they need other things as well? Like a set, lighting & techies! They blunder on until the dress rehearsal is pending - then panic!

While in the mean time the committee witness movement, so every thing must be happening, without questioning if it is or not. On the basis of out of sight out of mind! Which is a great for an Emu, standing in the middle of the road in the 'never never'. Who don't consider that a bleeding big truck is hurtling toward them.

I have attempted over the years for groups to appoint ex-officio positions of Production/Stage Mangers &or in house Stage/Technical Directors, Not as an elected position, but are there as over all adviser or facilitator for the productions.

But they prefer to bumble along the same way that's happened for the last 35 years - so there must be something in this sort of thinking?

Maybe I'm the drongo & they have done it right all along - their still there?

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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Directing
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Directing

Author	Message
Dondero Walk-On Joined: 5/04/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1	Topic: SM out of control Posted: 5/04/08 at 1:07pm
	Hi, I'm new here, but I have a problem. My SM was visited upon me, first of all. They were ALWAYS late for rehearsal, they left me to close up afterwards, they didn't take blocking notes even though I asked, and wouldn't give line notes, because they didn't want to hurt anyones feelings. Now we've opened, and they are going around countermanding things I've asked the actors and crew to do, saying 'it doesn't matter what the director told you to do, it's my show now'. Added wrinkle - their spouse is the lead, and I found out too late that they have depression, so anything I say may cause them both to walk. I'm just at a loss to know what to do about this - my running crew and actors are complaining to me, but if I say anything to the SM, I risk losing my lead during the run. OY! And whoever came up with The Stage Manager is in charge after opening should have their head examined.

	IP Logged

B-M-D Celebrity Joined: 11/03/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 346	Posted: 5/04/08 at 5:22pm
	You're between a rock & hard place now my friend. You should have drawn the line in the sand early on in rehearsals and replaced both SM and lead when YOU had leverage. There was nothing you asked for that was out of the ordinary or unreasonable. And if your lead suffers from depression that badly perhaps acting isn't the best therapy for her.
	BD "Dying is easy, comedy is hard."
	IP Logged

Linda S Celebrity Joined: 4/16/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 312	Posted: 5/04/08 at 6:03pm
	Agreed. You really can't do anything about replacing anybody now. The only thing you can try is to give a pep talk. Tell that they have rehearsed very hard to do things a certain way and that both you and the stage manager (Yes, include the stage manager as your right hand.) expect that the show will go as it was rehearsed. It is a little underhanded, but it is face saving way for you to get your point across without confrontation. At least everyone will know where you stand. It will make it harder for the the stage manager to undermine your show. Good luck. Linda
	IP Logged

biggertigger Celebrity Joined: 4/16/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 188	Posted: 5/04/08 at 10:34pm
	Um, is it this time of year for crazed cast and crew members? We have the opposite problem here with the director going crazy (during intermission they will mention lines they missed, blocking they missed, etc. Nothing detrimental to the show). I even had an actor approach me about feeling auckward about some blocking. My suggestion was to stop, take a beat before going to the next part of the blocking. The director threw a fit infront of me and the cast stating that if I have suggestions I should tell the director first. I was hired by the director to work with the cast and flesh out certain scenes, so I don't feel I was over stepping my bounds. The cast supports my side of the issue and believes that the director should drop off the face of the earth now that the show is on stage. Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Linda has really hit the nail on the head. It is nice to know that the show will end at some point and you won't have to deal with this actor or stage manager unless you so chose. Enjoy of what you can with what is left of this show and know in the future that your are wiser by it. Good Luck.
	The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.
	IP Logged

jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 5/05/08 at 5:33am
	I don't care how depressed s/he is, I don't think it's very likely at all that you're going to lose your lead during the run.
	IP Logged

Dondero Walk-On Joined: 5/04/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1	Posted: 5/05/08 at 3:49pm
	Thanks, everyone, for the insight. It's gotten worse, then it got better with the intervention of a board member who gave a gentle 'the director is in charge of the show, and the stage manager is in charge of opening the house, keeping times, and closing the house' talk to the cast. Wild horses couldn't get me to work with this pair again . . .
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:14am
	G'donya at least it's another learning experiance? Although I go along with jays post in as much as , the Leads ego would have have over riden any thing said to SM, which wass great getting someone else to lean on them. I think my ego would have bounced the SM, even risking a hand in hand walk out. It gets up my nose with theatre groups who tend to throw anyone into the SM job, if they are standing still too long. I have just helped out 2 groups, who's techie could not do thier shows. This was the case in both productions, of grabbing anyone to SM, who bearly knows what's down, up or who's paying the bill?! Yet the expectations for these is be a full bottle SM, without any training, just pionting them to the stage & giving them a script, hoping they will nut it out or at least have a script to read? I mean the name 'stage Manager' is only an oxymoron anyway, if they manage to do it in the dark, it's enough!
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

spikesgirl Celebrity Joined: 3/30/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 129	Posted: 5/06/08 at 11:37am
	I'm going to chime in from an 'official' stage manager's postion. That's my job and I do it as best I can - it is indeed that the show 'belongs' to the stage manager after the show opens, but any SM worth their pay would not change any aspect of the show - technically, that's not my job. My job is to make sure the actors/tech perform the show that my director has given to me, not to make changes. We currently have an SM who's out of control (the other resident SM and myself needed a break) and a director who won't rein her in. She has actually changed out props and 'adjusted' my set design to fulfill her needs. She's rude, quick to hassle someone when they've made a mistake, short on praise. Dondero, like you, she is married to one of the performing actors. The director is hesitant to reprimand her as her hubby is the lead in our next show. After confering with various sources, I will put my foot down for the next show (she signed up for two shows and the contract was approved prior to problems). She will not SM after the next show as we have had several of our techs tell us that they won't work with her again. Glad it's her job to get techs for the next show! Charlie Dondero - you're right. The greatest thing you can do for your mental health is to walk away from this pair. As director, you do have a say who you work with.
	IP Logged

ZFix1 Player Joined: 5/05/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 5/06/08 at 2:02pm
	There is also the fact that Theatre is a VERY close knit family. Word spreads fast, so the possibility they will destroy another productions morale will get slimmer and slimmer real fast. Most times I find that it doesn't matter how good the person can act or do tech, if they are a pain to work with, they don't get the gig.
	If you can dream it, I can make it happen
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:34pm
	Good point Zfix1 with the theatre network. I have always related it to if you flush the toilet here in Perth [WA] theatre, you empty a bath in Sydney [NSW]! Although it some 5000KM's away the word is past on like Chinese whispers ["Send 3 'n 4 pence we are going to a dance", instead of the real WWW1 message getting thru of "Send reinforcements we are going to advance"] While the message about this duo may change of space & time. It will ring a bell when it comes to future appointments. I agree the SM is God when the show is on the boards & the director fades into the back ground. Put he/she is still the puppet master in essence & does not completely evaporate. As we don't pay any one here as a rule in Ameatre, we don't have contracts, all are appointed positions. Also unlike the Pohms [British] & I assume there also, the position of Producer is regarded as being the theatre Groups management committee, not vested in an individual. Each Director appoints their own production team, especially the SM. This in it's self can be a draw back. Unless the Director has the empirical skills to realise the mechanics of a production. as there total focus when proposing a production is to get it on the boards. then worry about the insignificant things of Design & the logistics of how it comes about. The SM is regarded as just an after thought of "We really need to find a bod to be the SM [Not sure quite why, but it is traditional!"]. This is usually well into the rehearsal stage. but they have just realised they need other things as well? Like a set, lighting & techies! They blunder on until the dress rehearsal is pending - then panic! While in the mean time the committee witness movement, so every thing must be happening, without questioning if it is or not. On the basis of out of sight out of mind! Which is a great for an Emu, standing in the middle of the road in the 'never never'. Who don't consider that a bleeding big truck is hurtling toward them. I have attempted over the years for groups to appoint ex-officio positions of Production/Stage Mangers &or in house Stage/Technical Directors, Not as an elected position, but are there as over all adviser or facilitator for the productions. But they prefer to bumble along the same way that's happened for the last 35 years - so there must be something in this sort of thinking? Maybe I'm the drongo & they have done it right all along - their still there?
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
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Topic: SM out of control( Topic Closed)