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spikesgirl
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bullet Topic: B/W lighitng for City of Angels
    Posted: 3/31/08 at 10:43am
We are contemplating doing "City of Angels" and I would like to be able to avoid the half color/ half black-and-white set design.  My though was to use U/V light and make the change with lighting.
 
Okay, yes, I know it's expensive to rent the U/V units.  We already have some in stock.
 
Yes, I know that it would require special paint and possibly costumes and make up.  We have the budget for it and it would be restricted to a few characters and a certain part of the stage.
 
My questions:  has anyone worked with U/V  in a b&w situation and how successful was it?  How did it look?  I'm more curious about the success than the cost at this point in the game. 
 
Thanks for your input!
 
Charlie
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biggertigger
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bullet Posted: 3/31/08 at 5:19pm
I'm sure someone will go into depth about U/V lighting but from my basic knowledge and understanding, City of Angels takes place in yearly years of Movie production so the b/w scenes is the "movie" itself.  This is done by using black, white, and shades of gray for the set, set pieces, and costumes (regular stage make up is fine) to accomplish this effect.  As for the lighting, just filtered white light or blues work best during this time.
U/V light will only make colors "pop" that are u/v acceptable.  I don't believe this will work for the scene because they will only turn blue if you use whites or make color stand out unnaturally from the wanted effect. 
 
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Gaafa
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bullet Posted: 4/01/08 at 1:14am
Try using 'Sepia' gel instead say as a wash from floods or even on the cyc?
Lee & Rosco used to have that colour in their stables, but I could not find it!
Only with Colour there are 2 Gam sepias;-
Pale Sepia 327
Sepia 330
http://www.gamonline.com/index.php
 
You can also get 'Gamtube' in any gel colour, these are sleeves to slide on to any fluro tubes, which may help.
I don't know the play but it would give an old film effect, you could even rig up a rotating shutter flicker, fairly easily.
As suggested by BiggerTigger, UV may not be your best option!
 
 
      Joe
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Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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spikesgirl
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bullet Posted: 4/01/08 at 11:22am
Usually, when the show is produced, there is a 'b&w' side of the set and a color side - eff, that sounds vaguely racist - I had thought to treat certain parts of the set with u/v paint, then shoot the u/v lighting through the entire show, cutting off the white light when necessary to make the set b&w.  I have a TD who says it can be done, and he's put together blacklight parades for Universal, so I know it's possible. 
 
I'm just curious to see if anyone else has tried it and what their results were.  One guy did a u/v scene for Picasso with mixed results, so this is a follow up to that.
 
Thanks for your suggestions.  I will check out the Gam site
 
Charlie
 
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Gaafa
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bullet Posted: 4/02/08 at 4:22am
Leaving the UV blacklight on & bring in general wash to cover it, will work & give a seamless switch over, rather than risking the fluro starter flicker on strike up. 
The cheapest UV effect is fluro tubes of course, {which are in the safe UVA Blacklight spectral range [320nm - 400nm] wavelength of the Electromagnetic radiation Band.} However avoid any prolonged exposure if you use Incandescent Discharge unit, as used in the sterilisation process & cover UVB & UVC medium & short wavelength bands These are hazardous to health. especially skin & eyes, I'm sure your Techie will know this! 
{With blacklight fluro tubes & UV Cannons, the effect is made by the use of 'Woods Glass' [which is coating on the glass envelope, developed by William Woods]}
Something else you may consider is the 'Samoiloff Effect', which is not done that much these days.This works well with black & white fabrics & paint pigments.
It was used in the 'Ascot Scene' of My Fair Lady. Where they were all dressed in black & white costumes, the black turns to green on cue.
{This was first developed by Adrian Samoiloff & performed at the Hippodrome in London back in 1922. By the use of Red & Green colour saturation, which he perfected when Strand Lighting introduced their box trough batten lights.}
This can also be achieved by Mercury or Sodium Vapour discharge lamps, which give a green/blueish tint to black. However with prolonged use this will give the cast & punters the effect of sand in their eyes, as the shorter wavelength is in the UVB &/or UVC range.
Anyhow just a thought! 
 
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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spikesgirl
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bullet Posted: 4/02/08 at 10:31am
You read my mind, Joe!  Leaving the U/V lights on is exactly what I have in tend.  We made several U/V fixtures(fluro tubes) during a haunted house (many, many years ago) and can use those to flood the stage. 
 
I don't think the exposure will be an issue, but it will be discussed long before anything comes to pass on stage. 
 
I do appreciate all your suggestions though and I have made a permanent copy of your response for my file on the show.
 
Thanks for all your help and suggestions!!
 
Charlie
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Gaafa
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bullet Posted: 4/02/08 at 11:39am
I don't think for one moment, especially these days, there is any issue using any thing else beyond blacklight UVA fittings. Unlike back in 50's which used discharge UV lamps, which were close to the shorter xray wavelength.
I remember as a kid being told by the SM not to look at the UV lamps, during the show. Which in some shows was like being bombarded by arc welder flash's.
Unfortunately it was not an issue at the time, but the next day you could feel the effect, inside the eye lids felt like sand paper.
I only mention this because I previously had cause to advise a production. That the UV discharge lamp they borrowed from an industrial sterilisation plant, to save money. Was a potential danger to the cast & punters. They had done it unknowingly & with the best of intentions, thank gawd they never got to use it.
Actually funnily enough I was not thanked at all - just abused, although I offered to loan them free & for gratis blacklight fittings.
Weird people?
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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spikesgirl
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bullet Posted: 4/03/08 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Gaafa

Actually funnily enough I was not thanked at all - just abused, although I offered to loan them free & for gratis blacklight fittings.
Weird people?
 
No, actually it doesn't surprise me at all - we've had some pretty 'unthankful' groups come through our theater and it always amazes me at how little respect they have for techs.  It's like they think we go out of our way to make things difficult when we are just trying to make things safe for cast and crew.
 
I, for one, applaud your suggestions and I will be sure that if we do use our U/V fixtures, we have updated lamps in them.  Before this thread, I never would have thought about it, so, kudos, fellow tech!
 
Charlie
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bullet Posted: 4/05/08 at 4:50pm
I remember seeing this on Broadway, and was totally blown away by the effect. They had a colorful set, (dominated by the color yellow, I seem to recall), and in the next scene, the color was totally washed out. Everything was suddenly a believable monochrome!
 
I don't think black lights will get you where you want to go. I would suggest playing with colors in the light. You can find some scene paints that are pretty monochromatic (not mixtures of various colors) that will read as relatively colorless under certain gels. There are a few pale to medium blues that would do the trick pretty well. I think recessive colors for the light will work better than warm colors, even, as someone suggested earlier, sepia.
 
Don't hesitate to match what bright colors you have on the set with less vibrant ones - even grays.
 
I am sure they spent more than a hundred thousand dollars or two getting the effect to work on Broadway. The rest of us need to improvise and get lucky!
 
 
http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm
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spikesgirl
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bullet Posted: 4/06/08 at 9:15am
That's really why I  want to do it the u/v effect - it's never been tried before and I'm always trying to ush our theater into new areas.
 
We would have to do it on a much smaller scale, granted, but I have spoken with a coupleo f B'way contacts I have and they assure me that it was a combination of u/v lights and subtractive color using various gels (which I have done before, but didn't want to try on an entire set).
 
 
Thanks for your suggestions - they have been added to my file
 
Charlie
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