Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Wireless Mikes

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landon2006
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Topic: Wireless Mikes
Posted: 3/16/08 at 6:38pm

I have a question that I need some help with... We are doing Annie here soon, and our cast is close to 50 people... We primarily want to Mike all of our actors (the ones that sing). However, we want to do a wireless option.

I understand that UHF & VHF Mikes are expensive... but thats probably the way we are gonna go. The my question is this: How do we use upwards of 30 wireless mikes like this, with the differences in frequency... I thought we would just set all the mikes to the same frequency, but would this work? If not, how would you set 30 + different frequency's?

Any help on this matter would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Landon

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B-M-D
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Posted: 3/21/08 at 4:20pm

I suggest you ask whoever you rent or buy the mikes from how to do that. Your sound designer/ tech director/ and or other technical or board operators may need to be invovled in this as well. Not to mention that you'll need to get the music director into the mix at some point.

You might want to turn on/ off mikes as they are needed. This would need to be incorporated into your sound cues. With that many wireless mikes to manage you may want to have a dedicated tech person for just that.

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."

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JoeMc
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Posted: 3/21/08 at 8:38pm

BDM is right on!

Landon with more than one or two radio mikes, your creating a nightmare for yourself & the production.

as suggested you will need a dedicated techie operator & tracking system. {exl is great for that] Possibly along with an ASM to manage & control the warers of them back stage.

Instead of the exspense of hiring a heap of them, check with the venue Head techie, as to the house acoustics & what they have in Chorus, Boundry & Shotgun mikes they normaly EQ the venue with. Or work on the cast projection training!

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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landon2006
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Posted: 3/23/08 at 5:58pm

I talked to the Tech Director at the Theater. My concern with no microphones is that the Orchestra is going to drown out the voice of most of the young performers.

From what the tech guy said, he said buy 15 of the double wireless sets (which would make 30) and set each to a different frequency (They have a selection of 64). He said as long as you didn't have any outside interference (radio signals), that it would work just fine.

I am aware of the difficulty of managing that many microphones at one time. I had planned in for a special sound asst. backstage as well as an ASM and an additional 2 wardrobe asst's to help out if needed. Mixing will be a fun job as well, but perfectly doable I would think.

Since I'll be working with mostly untrained actors, under age 16, and only have 12 weeks to get it done in; I really don't want to get involved with projection. I had considered the "Wired mic's on stage", but this will create interference from both the Orchestra as well as other things on-set that we don't normally want to pickup.

Actually, I found a good deal on Wireless sets. $240.00 for a double set. Means I only need $3,600 for them in total.

Thank!

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JoeMc
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Posted: 3/23/08 at 10:37pm

just as a thought Landon. with the mike sets, it may be in your interest to procure a set on aproval. Test check them with the venues 'head tech' that they are compatable with his Radio Reciever equipment.

Even they they may be packaged by as a known brand, they could be a 'knock off' made in China. There are a heap of electronic products that for all the world look like riddgydig gear, they are as useless as boobs on a bull. They have a short working life & no spares available, also if you try to have them serviced by the Propriaty Brand local manufactures service agent - all you recieve from them is laughter!

Just something to be wary of, before you shell out the brass! I'm sure the venue 'Ht' would assist you in this situation.

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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landon2006
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Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:47pm

The ones the Tech Director suggested (which he said he had seen used on over 10 other productions that came to the Theater) were the Gemini UF2064L Dual Channel Wireless PLL System With 2 Lavaliere Mics. He said that for their inexpensive price, they are about the best out there (again, for the price).

I was able to pull up several websites on them, and some pretty prominent places are selling them in the price range of $235 - $299.00.

I'm hoping that they work fine, but I'm going to call the manufacturer and find out more info before I buy them.

Thanks,

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jayzehr
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Posted: 3/24/08 at 4:43pm

Landon, I don't know how experienced you are so disregard me if needed

but my advice for a project such as you're describing is to try and simplify things for yourself as much as possible at every possible stage of the game. I've never directed with wireless mikes but have acted using them and I have to agree with Joe that with 30 you are potentially creating a nightmare for yourself especially with kids involved. Are you sure that you couldn't make it work with area miking?

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JoeMc
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Posted: 3/24/08 at 9:18pm

I grew up in theatre, sure enough it was during the dark age, without using radio mikes or hardly any audio reinforcement!

A lot of shows I did generaly had upwards of 100 in the cast, that was when I was about 10. Latter on with casts upto 1000 by the time I was 16 or so.

Actualy radio mikes where not around, in fact mikes of any sort were a novelty.

It is surprising how the vioce will adjust with the size of the audiance or the cast.

When I was one of the urchins in Oliver back in the 60's. We had 3 casts of ragamuffins [orphans] that alternated for seperate shows. Which is all another story that would be as long as a novel.

I don't know maybe I'm just an old fart, but I think we are influanced by technoligy & pop music clips, to become lazy & not use our vioce capacity.

I was involved for a time at the advent of the 'Schools Eistedfords', where there was anything upto 100 in the cast of a dozen or so schools, for the finals.

All the tin lids [kids] wanted to wear the latest fashion radio mikes, they had seen performers on TV have stuck virtualy up thier noses & growing out of thier ears.

We had to have about 20 or so audio techs [ASM's] to marshal the radio mikes in different mike colour coding & number sequences, it nearly drove them bonkers.

However the worst of it was the teachers fiddling with the mikes & generaly being tottal wombats.

Sure this is an extreme case with a packed auditorium of screaming punters & at least the nioz boyz could control the levels needed to get over the top of the punters.

Honestly while it is a nice idea, i would restrict the radio mikes to only the Principal characters, as the chorus will step up to match them or attempt to get thier vioces over them.

I remember as a wee bloke at the Albert Hall, in amongest a cast of about 200, seeing & hearing myself on stage, from the 'Gods', during the opening number. Then realising half way thru the song, that I was not sitting in the gallery watching the show. that's when the hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up & a stange feeling came over me. Possibly if it was only one of being an twit?

[we had no mikes, but after all the acoustics there are almost next to none]

I have only experianced this a few times since, not as a performer, but a techie!

I'm sure your cast members will have respond in the same manner.

The only time I have used a radio mike in a show I directed, was because the leading lady, came down with a throat problem & I set her up with a radio mike. She spoke all the dialogue thru the mike & a young lass sang the songs for her, off stage via a hand held mike.

The audiance did not notice as the her vioce was always reinforced.

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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jayzehr
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Posted: 3/24/08 at 10:45pm

"I remember as a wee bloke at the Albert Hall, in amongest a cast of about 200, seeing & hearing myself on stage, from the 'Gods', during the opening number"

You mean you were on stage, but had the experience of visualizing it as the audience would see it?

Jay

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JoeMc
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Posted: 3/25/08 at 2:03am

Yes it is completly stupid, I was only about 11 or 12, going on to 32 at the time - yet I was not born premature?

I was in the 'Gang Show', this was at the start of the 'Crest of a wave' number. The pipe organ started playing as all the 'gangsters' entered in lines onto the chorus rostrum. There was only about 4 bars intro, before you got into place & started to sing. On about the 64th when reality set in, I was doing the hand actions & singing my box of, looking out towards the audiance, trying to see myself sitting in the gods!.

Unsure of what happend, but I kept smiling & singing like a nanna & starting to think could this be a dream or nightmare?

Asking the bods next to me latter, did I stuff up at all/ they said no everything went great!

It must of done because no one had a go at me for messing up!

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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Lights and Sound
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound

Author	Message
landon2006 Star Joined: 3/10/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 55	Topic: Wireless Mikes Posted: 3/16/08 at 6:38pm
	I have a question that I need some help with... We are doing Annie here soon, and our cast is close to 50 people... We primarily want to Mike all of our actors (the ones that sing). However, we want to do a wireless option. I understand that UHF & VHF Mikes are expensive... but thats probably the way we are gonna go. The my question is this: How do we use upwards of 30 wireless mikes like this, with the differences in frequency... I thought we would just set all the mikes to the same frequency, but would this work? If not, how would you set 30 + different frequency's? Any help on this matter would be much appreciated! Thanks, Landon

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B-M-D Celebrity Joined: 11/03/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 346	Posted: 3/21/08 at 4:20pm
	I suggest you ask whoever you rent or buy the mikes from how to do that. Your sound designer/ tech director/ and or other technical or board operators may need to be invovled in this as well. Not to mention that you'll need to get the music director into the mix at some point. You might want to turn on/ off mikes as they are needed. This would need to be incorporated into your sound cues. With that many wireless mikes to manage you may want to have a dedicated tech person for just that.
	BD "Dying is easy, comedy is hard."
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 3/21/08 at 8:38pm
	BDM is right on! Landon with more than one or two radio mikes, your creating a nightmare for yourself & the production. as suggested you will need a dedicated techie operator & tracking system. {exl is great for that] Possibly along with an ASM to manage & control the warers of them back stage. Instead of the exspense of hiring a heap of them, check with the venue Head techie, as to the house acoustics & what they have in Chorus, Boundry & Shotgun mikes they normaly EQ the venue with. Or work on the cast projection training!
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

landon2006 Star Joined: 3/10/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 55	Posted: 3/23/08 at 5:58pm
	I talked to the Tech Director at the Theater. My concern with no microphones is that the Orchestra is going to drown out the voice of most of the young performers. From what the tech guy said, he said buy 15 of the double wireless sets (which would make 30) and set each to a different frequency (They have a selection of 64). He said as long as you didn't have any outside interference (radio signals), that it would work just fine. I am aware of the difficulty of managing that many microphones at one time. I had planned in for a special sound asst. backstage as well as an ASM and an additional 2 wardrobe asst's to help out if needed. Mixing will be a fun job as well, but perfectly doable I would think. Since I'll be working with mostly untrained actors, under age 16, and only have 12 weeks to get it done in; I really don't want to get involved with projection. I had considered the "Wired mic's on stage", but this will create interference from both the Orchestra as well as other things on-set that we don't normally want to pickup. Actually, I found a good deal on Wireless sets. $240.00 for a double set. Means I only need $3,600 for them in total. Thank!
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 3/23/08 at 10:37pm
	just as a thought Landon. with the mike sets, it may be in your interest to procure a set on aproval. Test check them with the venues 'head tech' that they are compatable with his Radio Reciever equipment. Even they they may be packaged by as a known brand, they could be a 'knock off' made in China. There are a heap of electronic products that for all the world look like riddgydig gear, they are as useless as boobs on a bull. They have a short working life & no spares available, also if you try to have them serviced by the Propriaty Brand local manufactures service agent - all you recieve from them is laughter! Just something to be wary of, before you shell out the brass! I'm sure the venue 'Ht' would assist you in this situation.
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

landon2006 Star Joined: 3/10/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 55	Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:47pm
	The ones the Tech Director suggested (which he said he had seen used on over 10 other productions that came to the Theater) were the Gemini UF2064L Dual Channel Wireless PLL System With 2 Lavaliere Mics. He said that for their inexpensive price, they are about the best out there (again, for the price). I was able to pull up several websites on them, and some pretty prominent places are selling them in the price range of $235 - $299.00. I'm hoping that they work fine, but I'm going to call the manufacturer and find out more info before I buy them. Thanks,
	IP Logged

jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 3/24/08 at 4:43pm
	Landon, I don't know how experienced you are so disregard me if needed but my advice for a project such as you're describing is to try and simplify things for yourself as much as possible at every possible stage of the game. I've never directed with wireless mikes but have acted using them and I have to agree with Joe that with 30 you are potentially creating a nightmare for yourself especially with kids involved. Are you sure that you couldn't make it work with area miking?
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 3/24/08 at 9:18pm
	I grew up in theatre, sure enough it was during the dark age, without using radio mikes or hardly any audio reinforcement! A lot of shows I did generaly had upwards of 100 in the cast, that was when I was about 10. Latter on with casts upto 1000 by the time I was 16 or so. Actualy radio mikes where not around, in fact mikes of any sort were a novelty. It is surprising how the vioce will adjust with the size of the audiance or the cast. When I was one of the urchins in Oliver back in the 60's. We had 3 casts of ragamuffins [orphans] that alternated for seperate shows. Which is all another story that would be as long as a novel. I don't know maybe I'm just an old fart, but I think we are influanced by technoligy & pop music clips, to become lazy & not use our vioce capacity. I was involved for a time at the advent of the 'Schools Eistedfords', where there was anything upto 100 in the cast of a dozen or so schools, for the finals. All the tin lids [kids] wanted to wear the latest fashion radio mikes, they had seen performers on TV have stuck virtualy up thier noses & growing out of thier ears. We had to have about 20 or so audio techs [ASM's] to marshal the radio mikes in different mike colour coding & number sequences, it nearly drove them bonkers. However the worst of it was the teachers fiddling with the mikes & generaly being tottal wombats. Sure this is an extreme case with a packed auditorium of screaming punters & at least the nioz boyz could control the levels needed to get over the top of the punters. Honestly while it is a nice idea, i would restrict the radio mikes to only the Principal characters, as the chorus will step up to match them or attempt to get thier vioces over them. I remember as a wee bloke at the Albert Hall, in amongest a cast of about 200, seeing & hearing myself on stage, from the 'Gods', during the opening number. Then realising half way thru the song, that I was not sitting in the gallery watching the show. that's when the hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up & a stange feeling came over me. Possibly if it was only one of being an twit? [we had no mikes, but after all the acoustics there are almost next to none] I have only experianced this a few times since, not as a performer, but a techie! I'm sure your cast members will have respond in the same manner. The only time I have used a radio mike in a show I directed, was because the leading lady, came down with a throat problem & I set her up with a radio mike. She spoke all the dialogue thru the mike & a young lass sang the songs for her, off stage via a hand held mike. The audiance did not notice as the her vioce was always reinforced.
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
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jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 3/24/08 at 10:45pm
	"I remember as a wee bloke at the Albert Hall, in amongest a cast of about 200, seeing & hearing myself on stage, from the 'Gods', during the opening number" You mean you were on stage, but had the experience of visualizing it as the audience would see it? Jay
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JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 3/25/08 at 2:03am
	Yes it is completly stupid, I was only about 11 or 12, going on to 32 at the time - yet I was not born premature? I was in the 'Gang Show', this was at the start of the 'Crest of a wave' number. The pipe organ started playing as all the 'gangsters' entered in lines onto the chorus rostrum. There was only about 4 bars intro, before you got into place & started to sing. On about the 64th when reality set in, I was doing the hand actions & singing my box of, looking out towards the audiance, trying to see myself sitting in the gods!. Unsure of what happend, but I kept smiling & singing like a nanna & starting to think could this be a dream or nightmare? Asking the bods next to me latter, did I stuff up at all/ they said no everything went great! It must of done because no one had a go at me for messing up!
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
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