Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Outdoor lighting

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theatrejunki
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Joined: 3/15/07
Location: United States
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Topic: Outdoor lighting
Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:48pm

I'm directing an outdoor production of Much Ado About Nothing in our city's uptown park in a few weeks. The show starts at 7pm and as we have been rehearsing we've found that we will need to use some lighting as it gets too dark by the end of the show. Nothing fancy just a way to illuminate the playing area.

We are a small company and this is a free performance so the budget is very tight. We have been offered some industrial lights on stands that are very bright, but could work. I'd love to be able to use them because they are free. Any suggestions on toning the lights down a bit and cutting the glare? We don't presently have a lighting tech we can ask. Thanks for any help you can give.

Theatre is like a virus, once you get it you can't get rid of it." Robin Boisseau
Jennifer Dove
Stage Left Theatre Company
Medina, Ohio
www.stagelefttheatrecompany.org

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Debflo
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Joined: 6/06/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 60

Posted: 7/31/07 at 5:48pm

I'm not much of a lighting person either, so hopefully someone can tell me if I am wrong here, but can't you just Gel them? I would think that you could do that and it would work...

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P&M Sales
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Joined: 4/18/05
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 38

Posted: 7/31/07 at 6:53pm

Putting a gel in front of a bright white light will give you a bright coloured light, unless the gel is quite a dark colour, which is probably not what you want!

The questions I ask though as someone who has lit many shows over 30 years, are these ...

1) What does your lighting guy say about using these free lanterns?

2) Are they simple floodlights or something more sophisticated?

3) What are these industrial lights each rated at? 500w, 1kw, 2kw?

4) Are they fitted with discharge or halogen lamps?

5) How will you provide a power hook-up to them?

6) Have you got access to a dimmerboard?

7) Are they designed for outdoor use? (Will they continue to work in the rain for example).

8) Do they have the ability to safely attach gels?

9) Are the stands capable of making the lanterns high enough to provide a 45 degree angle to the stage?

10) Are the bases of the stands simple tripods or heavily weighted to support a lantern at full extension?

... and the list goes on!

If you want to use the wrong type of lanterns, or lanterns that cannot be dimmed, or lanterns on stands that are potentially dangerous just because they are on offer free of charge, then you will have to accept the ramifications of that choice.

I suspect that what you're being offered are worksite lights which are normally 500w or 1kw on yellow tripod stands which extend to about 6ft high.

My advice is to find somebody who ...

a) knows about stage lighting,

b) knows about temporary external electrical installations (including any town/city regulations about this)

c) understands how to rig stage equipment to be safe to audience and actors.

best regards

David
http://www.stagescripts.com

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181

Posted: 7/31/07 at 9:21pm

To follow on from David, who has covered it well.
Before you find yourself up a gum tree. Check your public liability insurance cover.
Definatly find yourself a techie, put the word out with other theatre groups or venues, but find one.
Who does your lighting normally?
As suggested the free lamps are probably the blat type flood used on building sites.
With the medina square park does it have a music shel, that the ortable floods could be bounced off or just an open space?
It's probably piontless suggesting other ways electricaly, as the lanterns are not yours, beyond what has been suggested.
One thimg comes to mind, if you have a techie of sorts? Get your group to fosic around thier homes or elsewhere for portable outdoor lanps & fittings, used for the patio or garden. Actualy they cheap enough these days to buy, as most are produced in china anyway.
Use them as 'floats' [footlights] or side lighting.
However it may be a good idea to speak to your Council Parks & Garden department, about the avaiabilty of power outlets & the circuit current capacity. Maybe they could help?
One other off hand thought is those cheap solar garden lights, not controlable, but worth a thought.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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theatrejunki
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Joined: 3/15/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 0

Posted: 8/01/07 at 9:24am

Wow…thanks everyone who responded. I didn’t intent to appear so completely incompentant; perhaps I should have included more information.

1) The lights are Regent Professional Series Worklights, so they aren’t some chintzy Home Depot use in you garage worklight

a. They are 1200 Watts Halogen Lamps (twin 600 watt bulbs)

b. Weatherproof

c. Light control of 300/600/900/1200 watts

d. Stands adjust to over 7 feet, heavily weighted

2) The Uptown Park where we will perform is used for many events (band concerts, art shows, ballet performances, outdoor concerts) so it is wired sufficiently for our electrical needs. There is a large Gazebo in the center of the park that serves as our backdrop. And I have had my permit for this event, which includes the city’s regulations, for months.

3) We have a rain site if necessary so we won’t be out in the rain. If we were to get caught in the rain suddenly the lamps are weatherproof.

4) I do have a tech guy, a professional electrician with OCD, who will make sure anything that is hooked up is done so safely. He, however, is not experienced in the nuisances of theatre lighting.

Yes, we are on a budget and may have to deal with harsher or less than adequate lighting but I would never put my actors or audience in a potentially dangerous situation. I won’t have to deal with those ramifications because I wouldn’t make that choice.

I appreciate everyone’s advice and caution warnings. I should have been more specific with my question. I don’t have a regular lighting tech at the moment however, the theatre lighting genius who I usually contact with my questions with will be back from vacation this weekend. I will certainly be discussing this issue with him, I just thought in the mean time I’d get some suggestions and try to plan ahead some. So, I guess what I wanted to know was if there a better type of filter or gel that might soften the glare or correct the lamps to give a more natural light. Something I could look into while waiting for more experienced advice.

Theatre is like a virus, once you get it you can't get rid of it." Robin Boisseau
Jennifer Dove
Stage Left Theatre Company
Medina, Ohio
www.stagelefttheatrecompany.org

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Gaafa
Celebrity

Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181

Posted: 8/01/07 at 9:14pm

This will may help with the colour gel selection in suggested situations from Lee filters;-

http://www.leefilters.com/LP1.asp?PageID=21

This site will gave you an alternative Brand comparison between Lee. Rosco & various other Brand gels;-

http://www.rosco.com/uk/technotes/filters/lee_equiv.asp

I'm sure your lighting tech will have a few colour gell sample swatch's hanging about your venue.

{which may be not too good a suggestion on my part, as a performer/actor [luvvie, warm prop, gallah] with a gell swatch book, can be the 3rd most dangerious thing in theatre for a Lampy - I doubt your techie would thank me?}

With the actual loan floods to keep the gell from the floods glass, you can make up your own filter frames easily & cheaply, using a cardboard to reinforce the gel or lace wire over the fronnt of the floods glass, as a gel holder. A crossing wiire will retain it quite well, however you may have to use a bit of gaffer tape on the edge of the lantern, which is normally the coolest , to captivate th cardboard gell frame & stop it falling off.

I find the wire in the X formation is better. Similar to what was used on 'Boarder batten floods' years ago.

{ [some say this is why they are known as 'Xray Battens'?] - However the the real explanation is the the 'X Ray' comes about from the 'X','Y' & 'Z' lighting possitions, refering to the graphical angular plane of the lighting equipment, in respect to the stage - Just another plauseable myth to go bung!}

I hope this might help?

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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TimW
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Joined: 8/10/06
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 83

Posted: 8/06/07 at 8:37am

I agree with everyone. Halogen lights are dimmable. Check with a local DJ that has there own lights. Maybe you could borrow their dimmer setup for some publicity. Just make sure on the wattage rating.

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181

Posted: 8/07/07 at 7:16am

One important thing Jennifer [Theatrejunki] I forgot to mention, that may or may not help you, when it comes to explaining electricity.
I'm sure David, TimW & all the other techies know & will agree to that secret of elctricity is not voltage, but based on 'Similated Manifestation Of Known Emf' or SMOKE.
After any electrical apprentice completes thier indentureship, the secret of electrical power transmission is revealed to them.
Not that they have wasted 4 or 5 years gaining thier trade qualification, but it helps them to acept & appreciate the factor, that voltage is not the actual force that makes electrical equipment work - but SMOKE - Which is quickly & simply proved out. When equipment is switched on & it starts to leak smoke. it will eventualy run out of smoke & stop working altogether. Which is also an indication of this factor, because escaping smoke prooves that it is &/or has been working powered by smoke.
Rather than get into DC smoke with it's smoke colector devices, known as batteries & also darkness absorber or dark suckers aka Globes.
It would be only a minimal requirement for a techie to be aware of & understand the smoke factor of elctro Motive Force.
Rather than go too deaply into this!

I hope this helps you theatrejunki?

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Lights and Sound
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound

Author	Message
theatrejunki Walk-On Joined: 3/15/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: Outdoor lighting Posted: 7/31/07 at 12:48pm
	I'm directing an outdoor production of Much Ado About Nothing in our city's uptown park in a few weeks. The show starts at 7pm and as we have been rehearsing we've found that we will need to use some lighting as it gets too dark by the end of the show. Nothing fancy just a way to illuminate the playing area. We are a small company and this is a free performance so the budget is very tight. We have been offered some industrial lights on stands that are very bright, but could work. I'd love to be able to use them because they are free. Any suggestions on toning the lights down a bit and cutting the glare? We don't presently have a lighting tech we can ask. Thanks for any help you can give.
	Theatre is like a virus, once you get it you can't get rid of it." Robin Boisseau Jennifer Dove Stage Left Theatre Company Medina, Ohio www.stagelefttheatrecompany.org

	IP Logged

Debflo Star Joined: 6/06/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 60	Posted: 7/31/07 at 5:48pm
	I'm not much of a lighting person either, so hopefully someone can tell me if I am wrong here, but can't you just Gel them? I would think that you could do that and it would work...
	IP Logged

P&M Sales Lead Joined: 4/18/05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 38	Posted: 7/31/07 at 6:53pm
	Putting a gel in front of a bright white light will give you a bright coloured light, unless the gel is quite a dark colour, which is probably not what you want! The questions I ask though as someone who has lit many shows over 30 years, are these ... 1) What does your lighting guy say about using these free lanterns? 2) Are they simple floodlights or something more sophisticated? 3) What are these industrial lights each rated at? 500w, 1kw, 2kw? 4) Are they fitted with discharge or halogen lamps? 5) How will you provide a power hook-up to them? 6) Have you got access to a dimmerboard? 7) Are they designed for outdoor use? (Will they continue to work in the rain for example). 8) Do they have the ability to safely attach gels? 9) Are the stands capable of making the lanterns high enough to provide a 45 degree angle to the stage? 10) Are the bases of the stands simple tripods or heavily weighted to support a lantern at full extension? ... and the list goes on! If you want to use the wrong type of lanterns, or lanterns that cannot be dimmed, or lanterns on stands that are potentially dangerous just because they are on offer free of charge, then you will have to accept the ramifications of that choice. I suspect that what you're being offered are worksite lights which are normally 500w or 1kw on yellow tripod stands which extend to about 6ft high. My advice is to find somebody who ... a) knows about stage lighting, b) knows about temporary external electrical installations (including any town/city regulations about this) c) understands how to rig stage equipment to be safe to audience and actors.
	best regards David http://www.stagescripts.com
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 7/31/07 at 9:21pm
	To follow on from David, who has covered it well. Before you find yourself up a gum tree. Check your public liability insurance cover. Definatly find yourself a techie, put the word out with other theatre groups or venues, but find one. Who does your lighting normally? As suggested the free lamps are probably the blat type flood used on building sites. With the medina square park does it have a music shel, that the ortable floods could be bounced off or just an open space? It's probably piontless suggesting other ways electricaly, as the lanterns are not yours, beyond what has been suggested. One thimg comes to mind, if you have a techie of sorts? Get your group to fosic around thier homes or elsewhere for portable outdoor lanps & fittings, used for the patio or garden. Actualy they cheap enough these days to buy, as most are produced in china anyway. Use them as 'floats' [footlights] or side lighting. However it may be a good idea to speak to your Council Parks & Garden department, about the avaiabilty of power outlets & the circuit current capacity. Maybe they could help? One other off hand thought is those cheap solar garden lights, not controlable, but worth a thought.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

theatrejunki Walk-On Joined: 3/15/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 8/01/07 at 9:24am
	Wow…thanks everyone who responded. I didn’t intent to appear so completely incompentant; perhaps I should have included more information. 1) The lights are Regent Professional Series Worklights, so they aren’t some chintzy Home Depot use in you garage worklight a. They are 1200 Watts Halogen Lamps (twin 600 watt bulbs) b. Weatherproof c. Light control of 300/600/900/1200 watts d. Stands adjust to over 7 feet, heavily weighted 2) The Uptown Park where we will perform is used for many events (band concerts, art shows, ballet performances, outdoor concerts) so it is wired sufficiently for our electrical needs. There is a large Gazebo in the center of the park that serves as our backdrop. And I have had my permit for this event, which includes the city’s regulations, for months. 3) We have a rain site if necessary so we won’t be out in the rain. If we were to get caught in the rain suddenly the lamps are weatherproof. 4) I do have a tech guy, a professional electrician with OCD, who will make sure anything that is hooked up is done so safely. He, however, is not experienced in the nuisances of theatre lighting. Yes, we are on a budget and may have to deal with harsher or less than adequate lighting but I would never put my actors or audience in a potentially dangerous situation. I won’t have to deal with those ramifications because I wouldn’t make that choice. I appreciate everyone’s advice and caution warnings. I should have been more specific with my question. I don’t have a regular lighting tech at the moment however, the theatre lighting genius who I usually contact with my questions with will be back from vacation this weekend. I will certainly be discussing this issue with him, I just thought in the mean time I’d get some suggestions and try to plan ahead some. So, I guess what I wanted to know was if there a better type of filter or gel that might soften the glare or correct the lamps to give a more natural light. Something I could look into while waiting for more experienced advice.
	Theatre is like a virus, once you get it you can't get rid of it." Robin Boisseau Jennifer Dove Stage Left Theatre Company Medina, Ohio www.stagelefttheatrecompany.org
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 8/01/07 at 9:14pm
	This will may help with the colour gel selection in suggested situations from Lee filters;- http://www.leefilters.com/LP1.asp?PageID=21 This site will gave you an alternative Brand comparison between Lee. Rosco & various other Brand gels;- http://www.rosco.com/uk/technotes/filters/lee_equiv.asp I'm sure your lighting tech will have a few colour gell sample swatch's hanging about your venue. {which may be not too good a suggestion on my part, as a performer/actor [luvvie, warm prop, gallah] with a gell swatch book, can be the 3rd most dangerious thing in theatre for a Lampy - I doubt your techie would thank me?} With the actual loan floods to keep the gell from the floods glass, you can make up your own filter frames easily & cheaply, using a cardboard to reinforce the gel or lace wire over the fronnt of the floods glass, as a gel holder. A crossing wiire will retain it quite well, however you may have to use a bit of gaffer tape on the edge of the lantern, which is normally the coolest , to captivate th cardboard gell frame & stop it falling off. I find the wire in the X formation is better. Similar to what was used on 'Boarder batten floods' years ago. { [some say this is why they are known as 'Xray Battens'?] - However the the real explanation is the the 'X Ray' comes about from the 'X','Y' & 'Z' lighting possitions, refering to the graphical angular plane of the lighting equipment, in respect to the stage - Just another plauseable myth to go bung!} I hope this might help?
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

TimW Star Joined: 8/10/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 83	Posted: 8/06/07 at 8:37am
	I agree with everyone. Halogen lights are dimmable. Check with a local DJ that has there own lights. Maybe you could borrow their dimmer setup for some publicity. Just make sure on the wattage rating.
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 8/07/07 at 7:16am
	One important thing Jennifer [Theatrejunki] I forgot to mention, that may or may not help you, when it comes to explaining electricity. I'm sure David, TimW & all the other techies know & will agree to that secret of elctricity is not voltage, but based on 'Similated Manifestation Of Known Emf' or SMOKE. After any electrical apprentice completes thier indentureship, the secret of electrical power transmission is revealed to them. Not that they have wasted 4 or 5 years gaining thier trade qualification, but it helps them to acept & appreciate the factor, that voltage is not the actual force that makes electrical equipment work - but SMOKE - Which is quickly & simply proved out. When equipment is switched on & it starts to leak smoke. it will eventualy run out of smoke & stop working altogether. Which is also an indication of this factor, because escaping smoke prooves that it is &/or has been working powered by smoke. Rather than get into DC smoke with it's smoke colector devices, known as batteries & also darkness absorber or dark suckers aka Globes. It would be only a minimal requirement for a techie to be aware of & understand the smoke factor of elctro Motive Force. Rather than go too deaply into this! I hope this helps you theatrejunki?
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Topic: Outdoor lighting( Topic Closed)