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Amos Hart
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bullet Topic: Question for Mr. Pospisil
    Posted: 12/15/06 at 11:57am
I was searching on YouTube yesterday and found videos of various Tony Award performances, including that of Urinetown.  Then I noticed that there were other Urinetown videos posted and so I did a search.  There are a lot of clips of Urinetown from community theatre and high school productions.
 
Apart from the fact that I can't get anyone in my area to stage Urinetown (and it'll be even harder to do now that the Directing/Choreography controversy has erupted) while high schools are doing the show, a question kept banging into my mind:  Are these people crazy?  Publicly stating they've violated their licensing contract and posting the evidence?

What is the stance of the licensing companies concerning YouTube?  Are those theatres in trouble, or are there just too many to go after?

Thanks for your time.
 
Craig Gustafson
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POB14
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bullet Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:32pm
I'm not Mr. Pospisil; I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express.  I've never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, for that matter.  What's so express about it anyway?
 
Sorry. Sorry. Anyway:
 
It may not be "the theatre" doing it.  A couple of clips from a local show last summer got posted on YouTube, and got taken down pretty darn fast when some of the powers that be got wind of it.  It could just be a friend/parent who taped the show and wanted to share.
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Amos Hart
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bullet Posted: 12/15/06 at 5:31pm
I'm sure it's not the theatre that's doing the posting; they'd have to be insane.
 
But it's the theatre that's doing/allowing the videotaping, and whoever gets a copy & posts it is apparently not aware that it's like spending counterfeit money at a casino -- not very bright on their part and pointing a huge finger at the counterfeiters.
 
Whoever is doing the posting, the taping itself is illegal and I'm wondering what the licensers think about the wealth of Contract Violation evidence popping up.  Are they going to make examples of the theatres or are there just too many to deal with?
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bullet Posted: 12/16/06 at 11:02am
We absolutely never allow any videotaping and of course people can get really ticked off.  However, for the sake of conversation, what is the reasoning behind prohibiting videotaping? Whatever the rules, they predate the internet and Youtube. Obviously, you wouldn't want someone taping or filming a play and somehow selling it but no one is making money off of a clip of a high school play on Youtube.  It actually might be serving as promotion of the script.  On the other hand, is the reasoning that the right's holders don't have artistic control of the final product? But then they certainly don't have control over the quality of the amateur stage version that is being taped. Regardless, with the cult of technology now it seems to me you're  swimming against a pretty gigantic tide to try and prevent family and friends from trying to document little Suzie's big moment in the spotlight.  For all I know, people could have taped and youtubed portions of our shows and we'd have no idea.  They can do it with a cell for crying out loud.  Are we expected to be scouring Youtube for clips of our shows?  Should we have someone monitoring the audience at all times? Then if you do catch someone taping, what do you do? Interupt the show by confronting them immediately?  Do you just tell them to stop or do you insist that Grandma turn over the tape or erase it on the spot to make sure it doesn't get to the internet? 
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bullet Posted: 12/16/06 at 11:26am
So  I got paranoid and went to Youtube and started searching on the last three plays I produced and/or directed. I about had a heart attack because on the little thumbnail pictures one clip looked like it was our show but it turned out to be a high school production.  Anyway, in ten minutes I found clips form around 20 some different productions.  (Actually, I wish I had seen clips like these before I directed because I saw a number of  ideas I would have borrowedSmile)
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Amos Hart
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bullet Posted: 12/16/06 at 11:30am
Ok, but the propriety or logic of taping is a side issue.  It's a flat-out contract violation.  When you sign on to produce a show, you agree in writing not to tape a show or allow any taping.  Whether you agree or not philosophically, you're the one who signed the contract; nobody forced you.  If you do it or allow it, you're in violation of what you agreed in writing to do.  So I'm not debating that point.
 
I'm not questioning if violating the contract is right or wrong.  It's wrong.  If you ask the licenser what you're supposed to do about Grandma, they will say, "Not our problem; it's yours.  Don't tape."
 
What I'm asking is: what is the position of the licensing companies toward all the evidence on YouTube of contract violation?
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bullet Posted: 12/16/06 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by jayzehr

We absolutely never allow any videotaping and of course people can get really ticked off.  However, for the sake of conversation, what is the reasoning behind prohibiting videotaping?


The main reason, from what I understand, that videotaping is not permitted is because it's not something that the rights houses are in a position to allow you to do. The rights houses represent the author(s) of the show when someone wants to present a live production of thier show, but they generally do not control rights for any other purpose, for example video. If you wanted to get permission to tape a show it would probably have to go all the way back to the author for permission to be granted.

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bullet Posted: 12/16/06 at 9:33pm
Obviously, the tapes are illegal. There are also MANY MANY clips of Broadway productions on youtube...LOL - I think if you persevered, you could watch the entire productions of "Wicked" and "Avenue Q" on youtube. LOL
If youtube catches the clips, they take them down...but, face it, there are tens of thousands (hundreds?) of clips on youtube. It takes a long time to find these things!

That said, some licensing corporations will give permission (for a fee). I know Rogers and Hammerstein Library does, and Tams Witmark does for a few plays - not all. I think it all comes down to the kind of rights that were purchased originally.
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bullet Posted: 12/17/06 at 2:54am
Originally posted by Amos Hart

Ok, but the propriety or logic of taping is a side issue.  It's a flat-out contract violation.  When you sign on to produce a show, you agree in writing not to tape a show or allow any taping.  Whether you agree or not philosophically, you're the one who signed the contract; nobody forced you.  If you do it or allow it, you're in violation of what you agreed in writing to do.  So I'm not debating that point.
 
I'm not questioning if violating the contract is right or wrong.  It's wrong.  If you ask the licenser what you're supposed to do about Grandma, they will say, "Not our problem; it's yours.  Don't tape."
 
What I'm asking is: what is the position of the licensing companies toward all the evidence on YouTube of contract violation?


I get a little tired of the lectures on here. Yeah I know about the contract, nobody forced me to sign it and I wasn't advocating breaking it.  I clearly said I do not allow taping.
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bullet Posted: 12/18/06 at 10:59am
Utube is pretty new I would guess the rights houses are still tring to find a way to deal with it. Yes taping is wrong blah blah blah, however it may be in  the intrest of both house and playwrite to allow some of that, it is a great way for people to see a scene or 2 from a show rather than pass the show over because they do not want to buy a copy. It also gets a show like Ave Q a wider audience, not all of us get to NYC to see all the shows we like.
I am not saying lets all tape and post, I am only saying that maybe the rights houses should consider letting people post small clips. no only to promote the show but also the play.
just my 2 cents
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