Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Stage Trees with branches

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eagle
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Topic: Stage Trees with branches
Posted: 5/12/04 at 1:13am

This is what I know:

I have to make 3 trees for a Midsummer Night's Dream school production. We will make use of one wooden pillar we have and a wooden construction and cover these with chicken wire. Then we will use paper mache strips to cover the chicken wire. Afterwards, we will paint them with dark brown and black water colours or spray paint them.

This is what I would like to know:

Some books say that paper mache mixed with cloth will be stronger and it has to be cooked. Could anyone tell me if it is ok, if I boil the wallpaper paste till it's warm and then use canvas cloth strips and newspaper strips to cover the chicken wire? Can I leave out the boiling procedure?

If I want to add branches to the construction, is there a safe and secure way of doing that?

Does anyone have any simpler ways of making stage trees?

Thanks very much!

Edited by eagle

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Gaafa
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Posted: 5/12/04 at 8:35pm

The paper mache process of baking is it to make it stronger, I think you will find, this is used when making furniture items, which are used & made to last a fair while. As in ?Jesso?, which was used in a lot of antique statues, mirror frames & dolls heads. To give it strength & a porcelain finish, to the plaster & muslin.
Assuming you don?t require 3 dimensional trees, I doubt you would need to go to the same lengths! The easiest way to do a stage tree, is to use a Jogger Flat as the tree trunk & attach cut out profiles to the sides for the foliage.
If your using branches cut from a tree, one main hiccup, is the fact they will rapidly become withered & deteriorate, unless they are treated.
When it comes to using poster paint, add some wallpaper paste [?size?] to the paint, this will bond & strengthen the surface.

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eagle
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Posted: 5/12/04 at 9:47pm

Thanks for the information. I guess that the trees won't need to stand much weight like furniture so it won't be necessary to go through the baking process.

I found out that I can use white glue and mix it with warm/hot water to do the paper mache.

As for the branches, could their withering be avoided if I dried/lay them out in the sun for a while and painted them?

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Gaafa
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Posted: 5/12/04 at 11:02pm

If your set on using real tree branches, you can spray them with a preservative to retain their natural colour. However they will be a real pain, no matter what you do to them! The leaves & small branch stems will break & fall off, all over the place, even with the most delicate handling or accidental contact.
Rather than having trees as such, if your stage uses Borders & Legs as masking. Just give the impression of the trees. By dressing up the Borders as the trees canopy & the Legs as the tree trunks. Leaving the stage space open for performance. However if there is the need of any action around a tree trunk on stage, just use a flat either dead hung or braced as the trunk.

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Spectrum
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Posted: 5/13/04 at 1:21am

I think construction of the TRUNK of your tree is fairly clear and simple from the previous postings, HOWEVER don't waste time trying to use real leaves, attached to real branches. Besides the obvious fire hazard of dried leaves on stage, they will look awful as they go limp and dry out. INSTEAD, use real branches, devoid of all leaves, and attach silk or plastic foliage, inexpensively available at your local hobby craft shop or importer's store. Just drill holes (at slightly forward angles) into the branches and insert the stem of the "leaf branches" into those holes. Unlike real leaves, they will remain green and unwilted. ALSO, rather than trying to attach the branches to the trunk of the tree (to make this look right you really need to be an artist), simply make the trunk branch up and suspend the "canopy of leaves" from the ceiling (or instrument support structure) so it is positioned BELOW the top of the trunk. Position your branches carefully so none of the leaves or branches are too close to lighting instruments. There's a lot of heat generated and you don't want your canopy burning or melting! The resultant look is a full, leafy canopy to your audience, with the ability to still light your stage without shadows or fire danger. Good luck!

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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Gaafa
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Posted: 5/13/04 at 9:39pm

G?donya Spectrum for picking up my obvious ?blue? - in forgetting to mention the fire risk! Which [could be a whole topic on it?s own!} As I believe not enough attention is paid to applying fire retardants to sets & materials used on stage. Especial in schools when they use all the right materials to attract fire, such as cardboard, paper, tat & other volatile combustibles on sets, most amateur theatre groups & schools are reluctant to afford or understand the risks involved - until they have a fire - then they run around like a headless chooks, trying to find & polish up their Fireman?s helmet before they can do anything &/or having to read the instructions on the extinguisher before getting it to work.
There again the education policy here is not to have fire extinguisher in schools, as they don?t want teachers to be firefighters! - possibly for the reasons I have mentioned above - Nah! it must be for some other reason?
Unfortunately here we have eventually extinguished the Fireman?s position backstage all together, unlike Britain & the US. For better & short sighted manpower reasons, in that he was regarded as being highly paid bludger, they can also save the cost of supplying a helmet, sand bucket & an axe. But that?s another story!

Chookas Spectrum

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eagle
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Posted: 5/15/04 at 6:01am

Thanks for the point about fire hazard. Totally not aware of this problem.
   Just tried working on one tree these two days but it seems to be a real slow process. Is that normal?
   For some reason, the newspaper strips don't quite stick. Perhaps the paper mache paste is too thin...?
   So far, we have wrung tissue paper with the paste into pulp mixed with newspaper and that seems to work better.
   But does anyone have any ideas how I could create 3D trees in a faster and simpler way?
   They need to be 3D because we will change their position and angle to indicate a change in setting. Thanks for your ideas!

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DramaMama
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Posted: 5/15/04 at 6:27pm

http://www.abookshelf.org/blog_comments/orbweaver/archives/s ingle%20tree%20nice%20shot%20smaller%20image.jpg

Having recently made some rather fantastic trees in much the same way. We found that the paper does not stick well to the chicken wire. Soak thin fabric bed sheeting, unsized muslin... cheap cheap cheap in a creamy mixture of white glue and water. Wring it out a bit and slap it around the wire. Leave a little give for a barky look.

I think I mentioned somewhere else that trees really are not brown if you look closely at them. A nice gray and green combo is quite good. Especially for Midsummer Nights Dream. Ours even had a bit of blue and black mixed in. I hope these links work http://www.abookshelf.org/blog_comments/orbweaver/archives/S tephanie%20tree%20smaller.jpg

Art thrives in Adversity

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eagle
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Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:23am

I have gone back to using newspapers and the result is great. As long as we use strips of newspaper and have the tree lying down, the process was done in fair time. We finished the newspaper layers with paper mache pulp and it looks quite good with irregular surface.

Could someone give me some more detail on the type of colours and procedure to use for painting a paper mache tree? Thanks!

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Gaafa
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Posted: 5/21/04 at 2:58am

Start with your base colours brown or grey, then texture by brushing in green or reds. Outline lightly with black & Highlight with yellow & white.
What I can remember from my younger days in the Pohmy woods. They were drab & moss covered on the northern side of most heavily wooded areas - not that you need to orientate by the greenest side of the trees or get out your compass to find north! But you will find moss tends to grow more frequent on the sheltered side of the trunk - so pick a side & nominate that as north!

Besides all that! - just use whatever paint colours you have got on hand & mix & match to achieve dimension - the palette is yours!
Lighting has possibly more to do with achieving the desired effect with use of Gobo?s & split/gels.
Chookas Eagle

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Topic: Stage Trees with branches( Topic Closed)
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eagle Lead Joined: 5/12/04 Location: Hong Kong Online Status: Offline Posts: 29	Topic: Stage Trees with branches Posted: 5/12/04 at 1:13am
	This is what I know: I have to make 3 trees for a Midsummer Night's Dream school production. We will make use of one wooden pillar we have and a wooden construction and cover these with chicken wire. Then we will use paper mache strips to cover the chicken wire. Afterwards, we will paint them with dark brown and black water colours or spray paint them. This is what I would like to know: Some books say that paper mache mixed with cloth will be stronger and it has to be cooked. Could anyone tell me if it is ok, if I boil the wallpaper paste till it's warm and then use canvas cloth strips and newspaper strips to cover the chicken wire? Can I leave out the boiling procedure? If I want to add branches to the construction, is there a safe and secure way of doing that? Does anyone have any simpler ways of making stage trees? Thanks very much! Edited by eagle

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Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 5/12/04 at 8:35pm
	The paper mache process of baking is it to make it stronger, I think you will find, this is used when making furniture items, which are used & made to last a fair while. As in ?Jesso?, which was used in a lot of antique statues, mirror frames & dolls heads. To give it strength & a porcelain finish, to the plaster & muslin. Assuming you don?t require 3 dimensional trees, I doubt you would need to go to the same lengths! The easiest way to do a stage tree, is to use a Jogger Flat as the tree trunk & attach cut out profiles to the sides for the foliage. If your using branches cut from a tree, one main hiccup, is the fact they will rapidly become withered & deteriorate, unless they are treated. When it comes to using poster paint, add some wallpaper paste [?size?] to the paint, this will bond & strengthen the surface.
	IP Logged

eagle Lead Joined: 5/12/04 Location: Hong Kong Online Status: Offline Posts: 29	Posted: 5/12/04 at 9:47pm
	Thanks for the information. I guess that the trees won't need to stand much weight like furniture so it won't be necessary to go through the baking process. I found out that I can use white glue and mix it with warm/hot water to do the paper mache. As for the branches, could their withering be avoided if I dried/lay them out in the sun for a while and painted them?
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 5/12/04 at 11:02pm
	If your set on using real tree branches, you can spray them with a preservative to retain their natural colour. However they will be a real pain, no matter what you do to them! The leaves & small branch stems will break & fall off, all over the place, even with the most delicate handling or accidental contact. Rather than having trees as such, if your stage uses Borders & Legs as masking. Just give the impression of the trees. By dressing up the Borders as the trees canopy & the Legs as the tree trunks. Leaving the stage space open for performance. However if there is the need of any action around a tree trunk on stage, just use a flat either dead hung or braced as the trunk.
	IP Logged

Spectrum Celebrity Joined: 4/16/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 5/13/04 at 1:21am
	I think construction of the TRUNK of your tree is fairly clear and simple from the previous postings, HOWEVER don't waste time trying to use real leaves, attached to real branches. Besides the obvious fire hazard of dried leaves on stage, they will look awful as they go limp and dry out. INSTEAD, use real branches, devoid of all leaves, and attach silk or plastic foliage, inexpensively available at your local hobby craft shop or importer's store. Just drill holes (at slightly forward angles) into the branches and insert the stem of the "leaf branches" into those holes. Unlike real leaves, they will remain green and unwilted. ALSO, rather than trying to attach the branches to the trunk of the tree (to make this look right you really need to be an artist), simply make the trunk branch up and suspend the "canopy of leaves" from the ceiling (or instrument support structure) so it is positioned BELOW the top of the trunk. Position your branches carefully so none of the leaves or branches are too close to lighting instruments. There's a lot of heat generated and you don't want your canopy burning or melting! The resultant look is a full, leafy canopy to your audience, with the ability to still light your stage without shadows or fire danger. Good luck!
	Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 5/13/04 at 9:39pm
	G?donya Spectrum for picking up my obvious ?blue? - in forgetting to mention the fire risk! Which [could be a whole topic on it?s own!} As I believe not enough attention is paid to applying fire retardants to sets & materials used on stage. Especial in schools when they use all the right materials to attract fire, such as cardboard, paper, tat & other volatile combustibles on sets, most amateur theatre groups & schools are reluctant to afford or understand the risks involved - until they have a fire - then they run around like a headless chooks, trying to find & polish up their Fireman?s helmet before they can do anything &/or having to read the instructions on the extinguisher before getting it to work. There again the education policy here is not to have fire extinguisher in schools, as they don?t want teachers to be firefighters! - possibly for the reasons I have mentioned above - Nah! it must be for some other reason? Unfortunately here we have eventually extinguished the Fireman?s position backstage all together, unlike Britain & the US. For better & short sighted manpower reasons, in that he was regarded as being highly paid bludger, they can also save the cost of supplying a helmet, sand bucket & an axe. But that?s another story! Chookas Spectrum
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eagle Lead Joined: 5/12/04 Location: Hong Kong Online Status: Offline Posts: 29	Posted: 5/15/04 at 6:01am
	Thanks for the point about fire hazard. Totally not aware of this problem. Just tried working on one tree these two days but it seems to be a real slow process. Is that normal? For some reason, the newspaper strips don't quite stick. Perhaps the paper mache paste is too thin...? So far, we have wrung tissue paper with the paste into pulp mixed with newspaper and that seems to work better. But does anyone have any ideas how I could create 3D trees in a faster and simpler way? They need to be 3D because we will change their position and angle to indicate a change in setting. Thanks for your ideas!
	IP Logged

DramaMama Player Joined: 5/01/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 22	Posted: 5/15/04 at 6:27pm
	http://www.abookshelf.org/blog_comments/orbweaver/archives/s ingle%20tree%20nice%20shot%20smaller%20image.jpg Having recently made some rather fantastic trees in much the same way. We found that the paper does not stick well to the chicken wire. Soak thin fabric bed sheeting, unsized muslin... cheap cheap cheap in a creamy mixture of white glue and water. Wring it out a bit and slap it around the wire. Leave a little give for a barky look. I think I mentioned somewhere else that trees really are not brown if you look closely at them. A nice gray and green combo is quite good. Especially for Midsummer Nights Dream. Ours even had a bit of blue and black mixed in. I hope these links work http://www.abookshelf.org/blog_comments/orbweaver/archives/S tephanie%20tree%20smaller.jpg
	Art thrives in Adversity
	IP Logged

eagle Lead Joined: 5/12/04 Location: Hong Kong Online Status: Offline Posts: 29	Posted: 5/20/04 at 4:23am
	I have gone back to using newspapers and the result is great. As long as we use strips of newspaper and have the tree lying down, the process was done in fair time. We finished the newspaper layers with paper mache pulp and it looks quite good with irregular surface. Could someone give me some more detail on the type of colours and procedure to use for painting a paper mache tree? Thanks!
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 5/21/04 at 2:58am
	Start with your base colours brown or grey, then texture by brushing in green or reds. Outline lightly with black & Highlight with yellow & white. What I can remember from my younger days in the Pohmy woods. They were drab & moss covered on the northern side of most heavily wooded areas - not that you need to orientate by the greenest side of the trees or get out your compass to find north! But you will find moss tends to grow more frequent on the sheltered side of the trunk - so pick a side & nominate that as north! Besides all that! - just use whatever paint colours you have got on hand & mix & match to achieve dimension - the palette is yours! Lighting has possibly more to do with achieving the desired effect with use of Gobo?s & split/gels. Chookas Eagle
	IP Logged