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Topic: Why is it wrong to give a line reading? | |
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jayzehr
Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537 |
Posted: 1/17/11 at 12:52pm | |
I hate to say it but as an actor I'd be tuning you out after your second or third question and would feel like asking "let's just skip to the part where you tell me what you want." But I'm old and crotchety. |
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theactordavid
Lead Joined: 5/29/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
Posted: 1/17/11 at 3:08pm | |
Ha ha ha. Oh my, I've left you with a bit of a wrong impression. It's one of the reasons I hate the impersonal, two-dimensional, soundless, black-on-white asynchronous worlds of email and forums, and yet... here we are.
What is barely implied in my post, but hopefully I can clarify here, is that I was giving a list of questions that an actor MIGHT be asked to help him understand the moment better. I surely did not mean to imply that I would give him the "third degree" and waste his, my, and the cast's time on such matters. Sometimes all you have to do is ask the one question that leads to the "a-Ha" moment, and you're back on your way. I suspect, jayzehr, that I'd never need to engage you similarly, but I've worked with enough actors who think "hit your mark, say your line, and exit" is the essence of good acting, and they rarely go three for three. For those, there aren't enough questions. For most, there's no need. The process of delving into a script to find the truth and coming to an understanding of your character so you can deliver your lines and action honestly is what theater is about. Otherwise, you'd just give the cast their scripts and tell them to return on show night with their lines memorized and pray they don't knock each other down. I'll offer what I hope is a somewhat interesting (and brief) story. On a tv show about Peter Brook and his experiences directing Shakespeare, Patrick Stewart told about how he often met with Brook to discuss his dialogue, and after each discussion on a word or phrase, Stewart would underline it in his script. By opening night, his entire part was underlined. If Stewart (an experienced Shakespearean actor) can come into a play needing direction on his dialogue, and Brook is willing to share his time discussing it with him until understanding is reached, then the process is okay with me. Edited by theactordavid - 1/17/11 at 3:09pm |
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There are no small roles, only roles with a low line-load and minimal stage time.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com |
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TonyDi
Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325 |
Posted: 1/19/11 at 7:15am | |
Hey Ed,
Nope I don't live near Chicago - it's about 7 hours away. And it's too cold, windy and dangerous. But thank you for your kind words. As for the knowledge and hard work, well first of all as I've said before, I've been doing this stuff almost 50 years and I DO work harder than many to get things done. I have to because I have to compensate for my lack in so many things. But that's just a work ethic I grew into quite early learning from my hard working Mother who I admired and respected. Let's put it this way, hey...I'm a FUN GUY!! Sometimes!! I CAN be a royal pain in the rear...so I'm told. But I try not to be.
And MAJIC - I know, I know I talk too much. But I've said this before too - I HATE to leave anything out or unsaid that would or could cause confusion or ambiguity. Though I REALIZE FULLY that too much can easily confuse things too. Though I try my level best to be lucid in what I say and complete if NOT concise (which I am not). Sorry I'll try to do better!! HAHA!!
TonyDi
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"Almost famous"
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TonyDi
Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325 |
Posted: 1/19/11 at 7:20am | |
TheactorDavid - the "otherwise part" above is precisely what David Mamet says in his book TRUE AND FALSE - but again, he's coming from a standpoint as playwright and hard-ass director type. HE'd just as soon the actors learn the lines without interpretation, go out on stage deliver them and then get the hell off the stage leaving the audience to interpret in their own minds what just was said or what happened. Far too risky with even the most seasoned professional actors. But could be a take on the whole thing - often worthy of consideration in many cases!! HAHA!!
TonyDi
P.S.
I like some of Mamet's comments but he does go off once in a while. And I don't recommend it be done this way but it's a way nonetheless. Edited by TonyDi - 1/19/11 at 7:21am |
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"Almost famous"
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theactordavid
Lead Joined: 5/29/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
Posted: 1/19/11 at 7:41am | |
Love the book, love Mamet, don't take everything he says as gospel. But he has stimulated my own thinking and I've come away with a different opinion on several topics. Not to be annoyingly picky on this, but I think the reference you make can be found on page 9, wherein he says "The actor is onstage to communicate the play to the audience. This is the beginning and end of his job....There is no character. There are only lines on a page.... When he or she says them simply, in an attempt to achieve an object more or less like that suggested by the author, the audience sees the illusion of character upon the stage." I think the highlighted words speak volumes, IMHO. The point is to get the playwright's intention across to the audience, and that comes from understanding the reason for the words (and action) as written. With that understanding solidly in place, I believe it makes it easier on the actors to deliver their lines "correctly" and avoid necessitating line readings being given. If that understanding is not forthcoming, the time constraints of theater (community and otherwise) do warrant a line reading and moving on. I worked with a director once who, in a fashion, worked the other way. If you said a line in some way that he didn't like, during notes he'd tell you not to say it that way. He gave no indication as to why, or in what manner you should say it. So, you'd keep trying until either you go it "right", or he just gave up on you. Never worked with him again. |
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There are no small roles, only roles with a low line-load and minimal stage time.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com |
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jonplaywright
Star Joined: 7/20/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 53 |
Posted: 1/23/11 at 11:54pm | |
Actually, TonyDi, the name at the top is not yours but the playwright's. That's a standard provision of a Dramatists Guild contract.
You seem to have a strong distrust for "academia," but the better academic theatre programs are by and large populated by people who actually work in the professional theatre. For example, at Harvard we worked with quite a few professionals affiliated with the American Repertory Theatre (e.g. Bob Brustein, David Wheeler, Greg Gunter, etc). Speaking as someone who writes for a living and has directed both amateurs and professionals, I consider a line reading a last resort. If I'm directing, my job is to guide my collaborators, not to play puppet master. Nor is it a waste of my time to help an actor understand the "why" of a line; it's my job. And generally, if the actor understands the "why," the director will get the "how" he wants. (Of course, if you've got students who are just learning English you're going to have to help them more, but they're the exception, not the rule.) Forcing an actor to "say it this way"--one thing I've learned as a playwright is that I often can't even say it that way myself--may get the line to "sound right," but it's also likely to be all surface and ultimately feel false, since the actor is just slapping the right color paint on a foundation that's not there. Jon |
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Co-Chair, Alliance of Los Angeles Playwrights
Resident Playwright, Final Draft YouthPLAYS, plays for young actors and audiences www.youthplays.com |
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NDTENOR
Star Joined: 1/18/11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 49 |
Posted: 1/24/11 at 12:59am | |
If I were doing a professional theater production of David Mamet and David Mamet was the director he has every right in the world to give me a "line reading" and tell me how to "say" the line because A) He wrote it and he knows what the line means an how it is suppose to be said. B) He is paying me to say it how he wants it said.
If , as an actor I feel differently, I probably should get another job. Now if some other director is doing a David Mamet play the question becomes do they really know how David Mamet wants certain lines to be said? Should these directors give line readings? And what if the "other" director and actor differ on the interpretation of a character? My feeling is this : If I were being paid to be in a production then, as an actor, personally I would probably bow to the wishes of the director and do it "his way or her way". Even if they differed from my own interpretation. ( It is a job after all.) However in a community theater production ,were I'm not getting paid ,I do not feel at all the same. Yes, I have had differences of opinion about characters with a few of my directors . And on a number of occasions I have had some lengthy discussions with the director. And on one occasion I left the production ( really was sort of fired ) because we did not see eye to eye. No, it is not my feeling that the director of a community theater production is "always right". If they were the author the production I would probably feel different..... but they are not. But a community theater director should be able to at least explain logically why they want things a certain way. And as an actor in a community theater production I do NOT just "read lines" like a puppet but "interpret" characters as that is one of the main reasons that I do theater. And I put a lot of "homework" into understanding the character. If the community theater director wants to "fire me" because I have my own interpretation of the character.... they can do that. But possibly it would be better and easier to convince me to do things a certain way for logical reasons. So the bottom line is this , as an actor I don't mind "line readings" . But you have to "give me a good reason" other than " this is the way I want it" or I'll probably quit your show. |
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peacock
Star Joined: 3/03/09 Location: Bangladesh Online Status: Offline Posts: 58 |
Posted: 1/24/11 at 11:52am | |
Wow, thanks for all the comments. I feel a little less concerned about giving the occasional line reading for my non-native speakers, but I am also working more with them to make sure they understand the motivation behind the line. I had a pretty funny experience. I had a student who was making a complete hash of our first scene. I asked him what his character was thinking and he said " I have no idea!" It was a great teaching opportunity for the whole cast as I explained that they should always have some idea what their character is thinking. If they don't, they need to ask. He did improve a little after that.
Anyway, I am enjoying the heated debates. Passion is what this theater thing is all about, right? |
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theactordavid
Lead Joined: 5/29/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
Posted: 1/24/11 at 2:36pm | |
This is a perfectly acceptable answer for the first week or so. After that it should morph from "Um.... welll..... (think think think, why did he ask me that now) ...... I guess maybe he's thinking that ________" into something a bit more solid without as much delay, to finally a quick response with a high degree of accuracy. After two months of rehearsals, if you still get "I have no idea" or "Um.... well..... (think think think)", then you know they aren't thinking about it while working on their part/character on their free time, and you're working with reciters. Keep up the efforts Peacock, and that "little improvement" will grow. |
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There are no small roles, only roles with a low line-load and minimal stage time.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com |
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Rorgg
Celebrity Joined: 2/10/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 151 |
Posted: 1/25/11 at 5:14pm | |
Chiming in here even a bit late, since this is an interesting topic.
As an actor, I don't really mind a director giving me a line reading, since (I hope) I'm adept enough at interpreting the nuance of language to reverse-engineer the intent behind that reading and apply it to the rest of the scene, and the character as a whole. Now, that said, I don't expect every other actor arround in CT (and I'm currently working both sides of the fence) to be able to make that interpretive leap. And THAT's why I don't like to give line reads as a director. I know Tony talked about how it's faster, but in a lot of cases ... I don't think that's necessarily the case. Because if I'm not getting the reading I want, it's because of one of two things: 1. The actor and I aren't agreeing on the interpretation of the character speaking that line; or 2. The actor and I DO agree, but they just can't do it. In the former case (and let's hope they're all this way) starting with trying to make a comment or ask a question to bring the actor onto my page is actually very efficient in the longterm. Because they will (let's hope!) apply that idea about the character to EVERYTHING, and we won't have to go through this in the next line, the next page, or the next act. And, in my experience, sometimes their resistance is based on a very valid interpretation that I might like. Sometimes I agree, usually I don't, but I like having the discussion (after rehearsal if it gets to this point). And THAT discussion is generally a VERY good sign at the CT level that the actor is engaged and thoughtful enough to do a good job. Now, if it's the latter case ... yes, then the reading is warranted, but this happens a lot less than I think. Now, on to the "Who's the Boss?" bit. If there's an argument with the director over how to do it? Director wins. I've been there as an actor. And if I don't see it, I will make my case as long as it's reasonable to do so (with lengthy asides outside rehearsal time). But there have been times when I've done that, and the director decided to stay with the option that I thought was weaker. So, I did it. Because, in the end, somebody's got to be the final word on that, and that's what the director is for. And that's just the structure of theatre -- paid or not paid. Now, you can always just decide it offends your artistic sensibility and quit ... but that may not be good for you in the long run. I think, though, it's a better option than wilfully sabotaging the director's authority. Oh, and I AM in the Chicago area. It's not so bad ... I hardly get shot at all! (The weather is horrible, though). |
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