Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: rubber prop bottle

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attic
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Topic: rubber prop bottle
Posted: 7/20/10 at 12:48am

We need help trying to find a prop bottle that can look realistic yet be made of something safer than glass for one actor to hit another on the head with. We do not need a breakaway bottle as the bottle is not supposed to break - just knock the actor out. I've been looking on the internet for hours and have not run across any in the theatre fx typical sites. Any suggestions? (BTW the bottle should be a liquor bottle - but we'd settle for anything that would sit on a bar...)

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vickifrank
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Posted: 7/20/10 at 2:43pm

You could make a 'bottle' out of two stout cardboard tubes. The slender one forms the bottle neck and is inside the thick one, which becomes the body of the bottle. fill the gap between the two with spray insulation to fill the space and fill the space inside each tube also with the spray insulation. Carve away the excess foam to form the smooth 'shoulder' of the bottle. Then paint and cover with a glossy coating--polyurethane? and add a label. Make it taller than the other bottles and hide it behind the other bottles so only the actor sees which to grab and the audience can't see imperfections.

You also could hide the construction perhaps by having the bottle gift-wrapped with shiny wrapping and a bow. That way only the top of the neck shows.

Edited by vickifrank - 7/20/10 at 2:44pm

_____________

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com
1-800-359-2964

The theater scrim people

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MercyTech
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Posted: 7/20/10 at 2:51pm

There are many products that come in a very durable plastic bottle. Many vinegars, soda and specialty salad dressings, etc come in bottles that look very much like beer or wine bottles.

We have a ROSS store here, that carries plenty of these. It is a great resource for bottles that are not glass. Cost Plus Market also carries them.

Of course, you would need to test how hard you could hit someone with it. Perhaps you could fill it with spray foam to make it soft, yet less breakable.

tim

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attic
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Posted: 7/20/10 at 2:55pm

thank you both for your ideas! It does look like I will have to create a bottle to make it work for us. I'm shocked that there aren't any commercially available - I would have thought this was something that comes up pretty frequently... either way - thanks for the posts!

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TonyDi
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Posted: 7/21/10 at 6:59am

Here you go - VERY expensive....why I have no idea but here is a brown rubber bottle.......

http://www.westernstageprops.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WSP&Product_Code=PRP01B&Category_Code=SPRT

But for $69.95.....that's a lot of $$ for one simple prop. But you asked.

Good luck.

TonyDi

"Almost famous"

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bmiller025
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Posted: 7/21/10 at 11:45am

TonyDi, have you seen the prices of breakaway glass bottles these days??? Horrible, especially for something that gets destroyed in use!!!

$70 for something that can be used throughout the run of the show seems almost reasonable, compared to breakaway glass!

Last time I needed one (for a shattering vase due to gunshot effect), we ended up making a mold, and casting them out of plaster of paris. The cost of the breakaway vases alone was twice the entire props budget, for a props-heavy show!

http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm

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TonyDi
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Posted: 7/21/10 at 1:27pm

Oh I DO understand. Yes breakaway stuff is outrageous and as far as I'm concerned hiway robbery. The molds should be made of silicone but I've seen pretty cool stuff done relatively inexpensively using silicone from the hardware store to create a bottle mold, and then you can buy the stuff called PICCO RESIN which is the same resin they use to do that process with (however in ALUMINUM MOLDS). But the resin must be heated, melted and then poured and sloshed around to coat the inside of the mold. SILICONE WILL eventually wear out, dry out, become brittle and render unusable over perhaps maybe 20 - 40 runs but by then you can make a lot of bottles. ALSO there is the "candy glass" process and both of these processes are relatively inexpensive - though you are dealing with molten lava almost it's so hot and the potential for burning onesself is high. MUST REALLY BE CAREFUL. And the candy (sugar and water) glass makes or can make, a mess. Cleanup is essential with that stuff.

It's ridiculous what they charge for the breakaway stuff. And you're right - $70 bucks for a RUBBER bottle is rather reasonable in comparison. HERE IS ANOTHER THOUGHT - you could mold a bottle of your choice and get that VINYL which is liquid in a can that they coat the handles of tools with. You should be able to get a variety of colors (not clear though there are clear vinyls) and then pour into a mold and slosh that around. IF you have to get black or red or orange - you may be able to TINT it with dry pigments to get a green, dark brown or some other color before pouring it. It air dries and then you could fill with the foam insulation that comes in a can to make it hold rigid and yet be safe to whack someone with since it's soft vinyl filled with foam (though that foam gets kind of stiff too). But there are options. You CAN even get CLEAR polyurethane from places like POLYTEK or SmoothOn - who are both silicone dealers and manufacturers.

Anyway you do have options. Good luck.

TonyDi

"Almost famous"

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newrule
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Posted: 9/28/10 at 3:55pm

We are a new breakaway props manufacturer. Small operation with two goals, the lowest prices anywhere, and best customer service. Two things that I have noticed were missing from this part of the industry.

I understand first hand the high costs. The material are VERY expensive to buy, and very hard to source, and the manufacturing process, though appearing very simple, is a very difficult and time-consuming one. Add to that the fact that FedEx will break 25% of our orders. There's not a lot of room for profit. That being said, I'm still committed to helping out smaller productions and keeping my prices as slow as I possibly can.

I have beer bottles that are only $12, (less in quantity) no minimums and we do custom work.

NOT sugar glass.

Also I have "unbreakable" plastic bottles, generally around $24.00.

Let me know if I can help you!

www.SMASHProps.com

order securely online 24/7

-Ryan Johnson

ryan(at)newrule.com

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TonyDi
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Posted: 9/29/10 at 7:23am

YEA!!! FINALLY someone who is thinking ahead....and SMART. How to do business....offer product at better prices, with good service and an understanding of the needs of the market without feeling the need to sock it to the buyer because the alternatives are few in this regard.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, the processes are involved - though it's not rocket science either. And while normally the molds ARE aluminum for resin (especially HOT resin) there are ways around that if you're a creative and knowledgable mold maker. Been there, done it!! HOWEVER I never had the desire to create a business for "props that no-one else has" - though maybe in my retirement, I might pursue it just for a sideline. Although my intent is to use my retirement for fun things as well as to write the makeup book I've planned now for the last 15 years or so. Someday I'll have time...SIGH!!

ANYway thanks for sharing what you're doing with the group. Bound to be of great use to those who need it at costs - thus far - so much better than anything else I've seen around. Good for you....and SMART. The way to do business in my estimation.

THANKS

TonyDi

"Almost famous"

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attic
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Posted: 9/29/10 at 10:46am

Thank you - we wound up buying a plastic bottle that has taken its share of dents in it over the run - but I will definately keep your information on hand for future purchasing!

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Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup

Author	Message
attic Walk-On Joined: 7/20/10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: rubber prop bottle Posted: 7/20/10 at 12:48am
	We need help trying to find a prop bottle that can look realistic yet be made of something safer than glass for one actor to hit another on the head with. We do not need a breakaway bottle as the bottle is not supposed to break - just knock the actor out. I've been looking on the internet for hours and have not run across any in the theatre fx typical sites. Any suggestions? (BTW the bottle should be a liquor bottle - but we'd settle for anything that would sit on a bar...)

	IP Logged

vickifrank Celebrity Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332	Posted: 7/20/10 at 2:43pm
	You could make a 'bottle' out of two stout cardboard tubes. The slender one forms the bottle neck and is inside the thick one, which becomes the body of the bottle. fill the gap between the two with spray insulation to fill the space and fill the space inside each tube also with the spray insulation. Carve away the excess foam to form the smooth 'shoulder' of the bottle. Then paint and cover with a glossy coating--polyurethane? and add a label. Make it taller than the other bottles and hide it behind the other bottles so only the actor sees which to grab and the audience can't see imperfections. You also could hide the construction perhaps by having the bottle gift-wrapped with shiny wrapping and a bow. That way only the top of the neck shows. Edited by vickifrank - 7/20/10 at 2:44pm
	_____________ http://www.studio-productions-inc.com 1-800-359-2964 The theater scrim people
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MercyTech Player Joined: 2/04/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 11	Posted: 7/20/10 at 2:51pm
	There are many products that come in a very durable plastic bottle. Many vinegars, soda and specialty salad dressings, etc come in bottles that look very much like beer or wine bottles. We have a ROSS store here, that carries plenty of these. It is a great resource for bottles that are not glass. Cost Plus Market also carries them. Of course, you would need to test how hard you could hit someone with it. Perhaps you could fill it with spray foam to make it soft, yet less breakable. tim
	IP Logged

attic Walk-On Joined: 7/20/10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 7/20/10 at 2:55pm
	thank you both for your ideas! It does look like I will have to create a bottle to make it work for us. I'm shocked that there aren't any commercially available - I would have thought this was something that comes up pretty frequently... either way - thanks for the posts!
	IP Logged

TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 7/21/10 at 6:59am
	Here you go - VERY expensive....why I have no idea but here is a brown rubber bottle....... http://www.westernstageprops.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WSP&Product_Code=PRP01B&Category_Code=SPRT But for $69.95.....that's a lot of $$ for one simple prop. But you asked. Good luck. TonyDi
	"Almost famous"
	IP Logged

bmiller025 Star Joined: 10/06/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 82	Posted: 7/21/10 at 11:45am
	TonyDi, have you seen the prices of breakaway glass bottles these days??? Horrible, especially for something that gets destroyed in use!!! $70 for something that can be used throughout the run of the show seems almost reasonable, compared to breakaway glass! Last time I needed one (for a shattering vase due to gunshot effect), we ended up making a mold, and casting them out of plaster of paris. The cost of the breakaway vases alone was twice the entire props budget, for a props-heavy show!
	http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm
	IP Logged

TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 7/21/10 at 1:27pm
	Oh I DO understand. Yes breakaway stuff is outrageous and as far as I'm concerned hiway robbery. The molds should be made of silicone but I've seen pretty cool stuff done relatively inexpensively using silicone from the hardware store to create a bottle mold, and then you can buy the stuff called PICCO RESIN which is the same resin they use to do that process with (however in ALUMINUM MOLDS). But the resin must be heated, melted and then poured and sloshed around to coat the inside of the mold. SILICONE WILL eventually wear out, dry out, become brittle and render unusable over perhaps maybe 20 - 40 runs but by then you can make a lot of bottles. ALSO there is the "candy glass" process and both of these processes are relatively inexpensive - though you are dealing with molten lava almost it's so hot and the potential for burning onesself is high. MUST REALLY BE CAREFUL. And the candy (sugar and water) glass makes or can make, a mess. Cleanup is essential with that stuff. It's ridiculous what they charge for the breakaway stuff. And you're right - $70 bucks for a RUBBER bottle is rather reasonable in comparison. HERE IS ANOTHER THOUGHT - you could mold a bottle of your choice and get that VINYL which is liquid in a can that they coat the handles of tools with. You should be able to get a variety of colors (not clear though there are clear vinyls) and then pour into a mold and slosh that around. IF you have to get black or red or orange - you may be able to TINT it with dry pigments to get a green, dark brown or some other color before pouring it. It air dries and then you could fill with the foam insulation that comes in a can to make it hold rigid and yet be safe to whack someone with since it's soft vinyl filled with foam (though that foam gets kind of stiff too). But there are options. You CAN even get CLEAR polyurethane from places like POLYTEK or SmoothOn - who are both silicone dealers and manufacturers. Anyway you do have options. Good luck. TonyDi
	"Almost famous"
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newrule Walk-On Joined: 9/16/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 9/28/10 at 3:55pm
	We are a new breakaway props manufacturer. Small operation with two goals, the lowest prices anywhere, and best customer service. Two things that I have noticed were missing from this part of the industry. I understand first hand the high costs. The material are VERY expensive to buy, and very hard to source, and the manufacturing process, though appearing very simple, is a very difficult and time-consuming one. Add to that the fact that FedEx will break 25% of our orders. There's not a lot of room for profit. That being said, I'm still committed to helping out smaller productions and keeping my prices as slow as I possibly can. I have beer bottles that are only $12, (less in quantity) no minimums and we do custom work. NOT sugar glass. Also I have "unbreakable" plastic bottles, generally around $24.00. Let me know if I can help you! www.SMASHProps.com order securely online 24/7 -Ryan Johnson ryan(at)newrule.com
	IP Logged

TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 9/29/10 at 7:23am
	YEA!!! FINALLY someone who is thinking ahead....and SMART. How to do business....offer product at better prices, with good service and an understanding of the needs of the market without feeling the need to sock it to the buyer because the alternatives are few in this regard. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, the processes are involved - though it's not rocket science either. And while normally the molds ARE aluminum for resin (especially HOT resin) there are ways around that if you're a creative and knowledgable mold maker. Been there, done it!! HOWEVER I never had the desire to create a business for "props that no-one else has" - though maybe in my retirement, I might pursue it just for a sideline. Although my intent is to use my retirement for fun things as well as to write the makeup book I've planned now for the last 15 years or so. Someday I'll have time...SIGH!! ANYway thanks for sharing what you're doing with the group. Bound to be of great use to those who need it at costs - thus far - so much better than anything else I've seen around. Good for you....and SMART. The way to do business in my estimation. THANKS TonyDi
	"Almost famous"
	IP Logged

attic Walk-On Joined: 7/20/10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 9/29/10 at 10:46am
	Thank you - we wound up buying a plastic bottle that has taken its share of dents in it over the run - but I will definately keep your information on hand for future purchasing!
	IP Logged

Topic: rubber prop bottle( Topic Closed)
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