Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: If the BARD were alive

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pauliebonn
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Topic: If the BARD were alive
Posted: 8/16/05 at 3:19am

What do you think?

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POB14
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Posted: 8/17/05 at 11:25am

Not sure what you're asking for in the poll, but to me what makes Shakespeare is:

a) Strong, deep characters.

b) Exquisite use of language, especially wordplay.

c) Dirty jokes and physical comedy.

Given that, I think the Bard would love Larry Shue's work (The Nerd, The Foreigner), much of Ackbourne, and some of Neil Simon's better stuff (the Brighton Beach plays and Lost In Yonkers). He might like Mamet.

I think he would toss Tennesee Williams and Eugene O'Neill into the river, for being devoid (or nearly) of humor. Even Hamlet has jokes, many of them crass jokes.

I think he would hate 90% of modern produced plays, because they are thin, linguistically ugly, and humorless.

And his absolute favorite would be Steven Sondehim musicals.

Of course, I'm probably revealing more of my own preferences than Shakespeare's (although I love Williams).

What do YOU think, pauliebonn?

POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard

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tristanrobin
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Posted: 8/17/05 at 11:59am

"I think he would toss Tennesee Williams and Eugene O'Neill
into the river, for being devoid (or nearly) of humor.?"

Tennessee Williams devoid of humor???

No, no, no. LOL See first class productions of the plays and
ignore the film versions. His plays are quite funny! If you sit
through a production of "Glass Menagerie" in which Amanda
doesn't get a lot of laughs - or a production of "Streetcar" in
which people don't laugh at Stanley - you're not seeing terrific
productions... and his actual comedies ("Gnadiges Fraulein,"
"Lady of Larkspur Lotion," "Lovely Sunday for Creve Cove,"
many of the one acts) are hilarious.

I think that sometimes people treat Williams' scripts as they treat
Shakespeare - as if, because they're classics, they must be
treated with the iron fist of decorum which smashes any life and
humor out of them.

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POB14
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Posted: 8/17/05 at 1:30pm

Well, I may have to go back to the scripts. Offhand I can't imagine Amanda or Stanley getting lots of laughs. (Okay, maybe Stanley scratching his butt and raving about the Napoleonic Code.)

But Big Daddy dying of cancer - now THAT's funny!

Remember, I'm saying I LOVE ol' Tom's plays - I just never thought of them as having much humor.

POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard

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tristanrobin
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Posted: 8/17/05 at 4:30pm

oh, my , yes! - Amanda is very funny. Now - don't get me wrong
- she's not a slapstick vaudevillian ... her character is immersed
in pathos and bitterness and a sense of desperation - but,
nonetheless, she is funny. I think the reason she's thought of as
being so deadly serious is because those darned film versions
with either Katherine Hepburn or Gertrude Lawrence are so
numbingly depressing. But check out the version with Joanne
Woodward (though miserably miscast, she's quite amusing) -
or, if you can ever find it, the tv version with Shirley Booth is a
close-to-perfect characterization - absolutely hysterical - and
absolutely heartbreaking.

And - LOL - yes, the napoleonic code is funny, for sure. But just
in general, Stanley, the self-important rube, is actually quite
funny when played by an adept actor.

Don't get me wrong - these are dramas, for sure. But there are
also very light amusing moments in them.

And, heh heh - though Big Daddy's cancer isn't all that amusing
- we have to remember the laughter than arises when those no-
neck monsters and their hellish mother are onstage LOL.

I don't want to overstate it - these are not comedies - I'm just
responding to the 'devoid of humor' comment.

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Gaafa
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Posted: 8/18/05 at 4:12am

I think he would have done any play that made a pile of Sov?s or Guineas, Especially if he could buy the script for less than a Florins & produce it under his own name.
The Jury is still out on his plagiarism - in my view!
He was an opportunist, entrepreneur & a scrooge. Who had no regard or wish to pay to educate even his own daughters.
Acquisition of money and asserts was apparently his greatest love & theatre only a machine to make it.
So I don?t think he would care, one way or the other, as long as he could pack the paying punters & groundlings in!
May be the question should be posed about Barlowe, Green & others, rather than Old Shakey!
Don?t get me wrong - I like your question & enjoy the responses! Keep asking them Pauline! This to me, is some of what these discussion boards are about!
G?donya!

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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POB14
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Posted: 8/18/05 at 1:09pm

Tristanrobin -

I get your point; I think it's just old age dimming my memory. I'm usually the one who is adamant about finding the humor in drama. (For example, I remember the NoNeckMonsters as being offstage only. Maybe that was just our production. Their parents are funny, though.) I hereby retract the Williams comment as having been blown out a nonsentient orifice during a break at work. Wanna argue about O'Neill, now?

Gaafa -

I don't think we're discussing the Historical Shakespere, here, whoever he was - to me a very uninteresting argument, anyway, over Who Wrote The Plays - if you take the the question to be, "what modern plays best and least meet the standards set by the canon of plays generally published under the name of the Bard of Avon" , what would your answer be?

Edit to add: I meant to work the word "skinnamarinkidoo" into the above discussion of Cat somewhere. Couldn't do it. I apologize for the omission. Thank you and goodnight.

POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard

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tristanrobin
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Posted: 8/18/05 at 2:58pm

O'Neill, huh?
LOL
Wellllll.
We just saw the highly acclaimed Longwharf Theatre
production of "Moon for the Misbegotten" a couple of months
ago...and, heh heh, believe it or not, there were actually quite a
few laughs. Again, granted, it is NOT a comedy - but, there
were enough laughs to keep me awake for (ahem) 3 hours and
15 minutes LOL.

I think we probably agree about this issue - but it's fun to debate
it anyway LOL.

...and "skinnamarinkidoo" to you too

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Gaafa
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Posted: 8/18/05 at 10:24pm

My blue - POB!
I obviously didn?t quite understand what the Poll or question was about?
It is probably old age, but I tend to shake my head & mumble when Willy is held up as the over riding bench mark. When the more valued theatrical excellence, to me, is wether the ?bard is the bacon or the bacon is the bard??
Being primarily a black duck on the pond, I doubt I could make an adjudication on what modern work would be accepted or rejected by Willy &/or can be measured against the compendium of work produced in that period.
Maybe plays that would be rejected are those written with TV or the flicks in mind by the author. Which because of copyright restrictions can?t be reworked or changed to suit theatre, which Bill would never have had to worry about. Only copyright enforcement being delivered at the point of a sword.
However a few spring to mind such as ?Hotel Sorrento? or ?Travelling north?. The last one by David Williamson. Who keeps pumping out this stuff hoping to flog to a TV company, as it certainly tends to be produced badly in theatre.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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pauliebonn
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Posted: 9/03/05 at 2:28am

I have been asked what I think Mr. Bill (OH NO!!!!) would enjoy or not.

Although I am a fan of Samuel Beckett, I think Willy would cut his throat if he saw waiting for Godot.

I do believe he would enjoy Mamet, Sondheim, and Simon..

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Poll Question: What plays would he like
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
or dislike	0	[0.00%]
or totally throw away	0	[0.00%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Topic: If the BARD were alive( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
pauliebonn Star Joined: 4/15/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 62	Topic: If the BARD were alive Posted: 8/16/05 at 3:19am
	What do you think?

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POB14 Celebrity Joined: 7/01/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 349	Posted: 8/17/05 at 11:25am
	Not sure what you're asking for in the poll, but to me what makes Shakespeare is: a) Strong, deep characters. b) Exquisite use of language, especially wordplay. c) Dirty jokes and physical comedy. Given that, I think the Bard would love Larry Shue's work (The Nerd, The Foreigner), much of Ackbourne, and some of Neil Simon's better stuff (the Brighton Beach plays and Lost In Yonkers). He might like Mamet. I think he would toss Tennesee Williams and Eugene O'Neill into the river, for being devoid (or nearly) of humor. Even Hamlet has jokes, many of them crass jokes. I think he would hate 90% of modern produced plays, because they are thin, linguistically ugly, and humorless. And his absolute favorite would be Steven Sondehim musicals. Of course, I'm probably revealing more of my own preferences than Shakespeare's (although I love Williams). What do YOU think, pauliebonn?
	POB Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard
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tristanrobin Celebrity Joined: 4/25/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 704	Posted: 8/17/05 at 11:59am
	"I think he would toss Tennesee Williams and Eugene O'Neill into the river, for being devoid (or nearly) of humor.?" Tennessee Williams devoid of humor??? No, no, no. LOL See first class productions of the plays and ignore the film versions. His plays are quite funny! If you sit through a production of "Glass Menagerie" in which Amanda doesn't get a lot of laughs - or a production of "Streetcar" in which people don't laugh at Stanley - you're not seeing terrific productions... and his actual comedies ("Gnadiges Fraulein," "Lady of Larkspur Lotion," "Lovely Sunday for Creve Cove," many of the one acts) are hilarious. I think that sometimes people treat Williams' scripts as they treat Shakespeare - as if, because they're classics, they must be treated with the iron fist of decorum which smashes any life and humor out of them.
	IP Logged

POB14 Celebrity Joined: 7/01/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 349	Posted: 8/17/05 at 1:30pm
	Well, I may have to go back to the scripts. Offhand I can't imagine Amanda or Stanley getting lots of laughs. (Okay, maybe Stanley scratching his butt and raving about the Napoleonic Code.) But Big Daddy dying of cancer - now THAT's funny! Remember, I'm saying I LOVE ol' Tom's plays - I just never thought of them as having much humor.
	POB Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard
	IP Logged

tristanrobin Celebrity Joined: 4/25/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 704	Posted: 8/17/05 at 4:30pm
	oh, my , yes! - Amanda is very funny. Now - don't get me wrong - she's not a slapstick vaudevillian ... her character is immersed in pathos and bitterness and a sense of desperation - but, nonetheless, she is funny. I think the reason she's thought of as being so deadly serious is because those darned film versions with either Katherine Hepburn or Gertrude Lawrence are so numbingly depressing. But check out the version with Joanne Woodward (though miserably miscast, she's quite amusing) - or, if you can ever find it, the tv version with Shirley Booth is a close-to-perfect characterization - absolutely hysterical - and absolutely heartbreaking. And - LOL - yes, the napoleonic code is funny, for sure. But just in general, Stanley, the self-important rube, is actually quite funny when played by an adept actor. Don't get me wrong - these are dramas, for sure. But there are also very light amusing moments in them. And, heh heh - though Big Daddy's cancer isn't all that amusing - we have to remember the laughter than arises when those no- neck monsters and their hellish mother are onstage LOL. I don't want to overstate it - these are not comedies - I'm just responding to the 'devoid of humor' comment.
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 8/18/05 at 4:12am
	I think he would have done any play that made a pile of Sov?s or Guineas, Especially if he could buy the script for less than a Florins & produce it under his own name. The Jury is still out on his plagiarism - in my view! He was an opportunist, entrepreneur & a scrooge. Who had no regard or wish to pay to educate even his own daughters. Acquisition of money and asserts was apparently his greatest love & theatre only a machine to make it. So I don?t think he would care, one way or the other, as long as he could pack the paying punters & groundlings in! May be the question should be posed about Barlowe, Green & others, rather than Old Shakey! Don?t get me wrong - I like your question & enjoy the responses! Keep asking them Pauline! This to me, is some of what these discussion boards are about! G?donya!
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
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POB14 Celebrity Joined: 7/01/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 349	Posted: 8/18/05 at 1:09pm
	Tristanrobin - I get your point; I think it's just old age dimming my memory. I'm usually the one who is adamant about finding the humor in drama. (For example, I remember the NoNeckMonsters as being offstage only. Maybe that was just our production. Their parents are funny, though.) I hereby retract the Williams comment as having been blown out a nonsentient orifice during a break at work. Wanna argue about O'Neill, now? Gaafa - I don't think we're discussing the Historical Shakespere, here, whoever he was - to me a very uninteresting argument, anyway, over Who Wrote The Plays - if you take the the question to be, "what modern plays best and least meet the standards set by the canon of plays generally published under the name of the Bard of Avon" , what would your answer be? Edit to add: I meant to work the word "skinnamarinkidoo" into the above discussion of Cat somewhere. Couldn't do it. I apologize for the omission. Thank you and goodnight.
	POB Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard
	IP Logged

tristanrobin Celebrity Joined: 4/25/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 704	Posted: 8/18/05 at 2:58pm
	O'Neill, huh? LOL Wellllll. We just saw the highly acclaimed Longwharf Theatre production of "Moon for the Misbegotten" a couple of months ago...and, heh heh, believe it or not, there were actually quite a few laughs. Again, granted, it is NOT a comedy - but, there were enough laughs to keep me awake for (ahem) 3 hours and 15 minutes LOL. I think we probably agree about this issue - but it's fun to debate it anyway LOL. ...and "skinnamarinkidoo" to you too
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 8/18/05 at 10:24pm
	My blue - POB! I obviously didn?t quite understand what the Poll or question was about? It is probably old age, but I tend to shake my head & mumble when Willy is held up as the over riding bench mark. When the more valued theatrical excellence, to me, is wether the ?bard is the bacon or the bacon is the bard?? Being primarily a black duck on the pond, I doubt I could make an adjudication on what modern work would be accepted or rejected by Willy &/or can be measured against the compendium of work produced in that period. Maybe plays that would be rejected are those written with TV or the flicks in mind by the author. Which because of copyright restrictions can?t be reworked or changed to suit theatre, which Bill would never have had to worry about. Only copyright enforcement being delivered at the point of a sword. However a few spring to mind such as ?Hotel Sorrento? or ?Travelling north?. The last one by David Williamson. Who keeps pumping out this stuff hoping to flog to a TV company, as it certainly tends to be produced badly in theatre.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
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pauliebonn Star Joined: 4/15/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 62	Posted: 9/03/05 at 2:28am
	I have been asked what I think Mr. Bill (OH NO!!!!) would enjoy or not. Although I am a fan of Samuel Beckett, I think Willy would cut his throat if he saw waiting for Godot. I do believe he would enjoy Mamet, Sondheim, and Simon..
	IP Logged