Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: ja, das puppets!

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puck
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Topic: ja, das puppets!
Posted: 9/01/06 at 11:16pm

Does anyone have any puppet making experience around here? Specifically, puppets / apparati that aren't akin to marrionettes ... and prefferbly ones that aren't rigged to a batten. These guys need to appear as if they are growing larger, say from five to 10 feet.

In actuality, this project might grow into something that's more shadow oriented, but I wanted to hear thoughts as to how it could be accomplished in the more tangiable sense.

Maybe, if it's ...Have you seen Marilyn Manson's video for The Beautiful People? There's these really tall crazy figures that dance around and do some ballet stuff. Maybe something like that?
Heres a link to better support that musing:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6842022290562005797& amp;q=beauti ful+people+manson&hl=en
If Mason kinda like, isn't your thing you can just fast forward to the spot, it's like 1.10 in or so -- they make apperences throughout after.

Anywho. Thoughts would be fabulous.

[x-posted]

That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.

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EddyZ
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Posted: 9/02/06 at 11:43am

In a lot of those scenes, the tall figures are simply one dancer on another's shoulders. (I've seen this done a lot in the dream sequence in Fiddler on the Roof). I suspect the scene in which they grow involves fake legs and a wire rig to lift the person into the air, then the camera cuts away -- they'd probably cut back to another actor on stilts walking again, or one dancer on the other's shoulders.

Little hard to do camera tricks on stage, though.

You might to make a puppet using a "backpack rig" like this guy does for a lot of his stuff:

http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/fandango/fandango5.php

and be able to make the rig so it telescopes, letting you raise the upper torso higher.

EddyZ
http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/
www.nailsouptheatre.com/

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puck
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Posted: 9/02/06 at 12:28pm

Curses!

I thought I was imune to to the Editing Magic.

I think I had thought better of the Dreaded Editing Magic because of the delicate and nimble moves that those guys make, and thinking that it would be beyond tedious to do that with folks on top of eachother's shoulders.

It needs to have a fluid organic motion to it, it can't appear too contrived.

That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.

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castMe
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Posted: 9/02/06 at 12:34pm

Can you perform on platforms? Pop the puppets out of a trap door? Maybe you can incorporate your shadow idea into this and show part of the grown raw and some of it shadowed. I'd love to see the end result.

Investigate. Imagine. Choose.

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puck
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Posted: 9/02/06 at 5:45pm

I think, platforms *Could* work, but the design as it is now has a lot of other rolling / tracked units.

That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.

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TimW
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Posted: 9/02/06 at 6:22pm

I think the telescopic idea is a great start. You can possibly have a wire attached from the actors foot to the top of the frame and back down to the costume (a pulley and cable system). If the actor is in a squatting position the cable is shortet and the costume is lower. When they stand up, the cable from the foot to the top of the rig gets longer raising the costume. Then maybe run control lines from the actors hands to the puppets hands on the inside. In my mind it works, maybe on paper. Good luck!

Tim

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EddyZ
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Posted: 9/03/06 at 9:10am

There's a company out there somewhere, too, that makes 10-foot tall mascot puppets, for use in stadiums and whatnot. I tried to find their web site again yesterday for you, but I couldn't. If I run across it, I'll let you know, it might be a good place to start.

EddyZ
http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/
www.nailsouptheatre.com/

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EddyZ
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Posted: 9/03/06 at 9:15am

A-ha! Didn't find the exact site again, but this groups puppets are of a similar design:

http://www.stiltwalker.com/giantpuppets.htm

EddyZ
http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/
www.nailsouptheatre.com/

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puck
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Posted: 9/04/06 at 2:53pm

Tim,
I love the pulley idea in principle! But that seems like it might get into wonky tension issues with the cables and I don't know...can you draw a picture maybe?

EddyZ! Thank you! The links really helped break some things up in the mind...! I found some other ginormus puppet information, and methinks the Backpack idea will work for one of the 3 characters needed.

It sounds like it wants to telescope in some way some how.

That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.

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TimW
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Posted: 9/06/06 at 4:41pm

High Puck. I tried to get a drawing onto this site, but had no luck. Probably more me than the computer. So I will try this route.

1. Build a frame like a backpack (probably out of alumimum) using 'c' channel for the sides with the open side facing out. Use cross bracing to keep it square. Attach a small pulley to the top center of this frame.

2. Build another frame for the costume out of square tubing a little wider than the backpack frame. Height will vary upon the costume. Attach rollers to the costume part of the frame so they roll inside the 'c' channel part of the backpack frame.

3. Get or make a strap (similar to an excercise strap) for the foot. Run a line from this strap up through the pulley and down to the bottom of the costume frame. As long as the line from the pulley to the bottom anchor point is parrallel to the side of the frame, there shouldn't be much tension or twisting issues.

I hope this will help. if you need a drawing, I could send one by fax or email.Until then I will try to fiqure this out.

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
puck Player Joined: 4/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: ja, das puppets! Posted: 9/01/06 at 11:16pm
	Does anyone have any puppet making experience around here? Specifically, puppets / apparati that aren't akin to marrionettes ... and prefferbly ones that aren't rigged to a batten. These guys need to appear as if they are growing larger, say from five to 10 feet. In actuality, this project might grow into something that's more shadow oriented, but I wanted to hear thoughts as to how it could be accomplished in the more tangiable sense. Maybe, if it's ...Have you seen Marilyn Manson's video for The Beautiful People? There's these really tall crazy figures that dance around and do some ballet stuff. Maybe something like that? Heres a link to better support that musing: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6842022290562005797& amp;q=beauti ful+people+manson&hl=en If Mason kinda like, isn't your thing you can just fast forward to the spot, it's like 1.10 in or so -- they make apperences throughout after. Anywho. Thoughts would be fabulous. [x-posted]
	That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.

	IP Logged

EddyZ Star Joined: 8/21/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 60	Posted: 9/02/06 at 11:43am
	In a lot of those scenes, the tall figures are simply one dancer on another's shoulders. (I've seen this done a lot in the dream sequence in Fiddler on the Roof). I suspect the scene in which they grow involves fake legs and a wire rig to lift the person into the air, then the camera cuts away -- they'd probably cut back to another actor on stilts walking again, or one dancer on the other's shoulders. Little hard to do camera tricks on stage, though. You might to make a puppet using a "backpack rig" like this guy does for a lot of his stuff: http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/fandango/fandango5.php and be able to make the rig so it telescopes, letting you raise the upper torso higher.
	EddyZ http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/ www.nailsouptheatre.com/
	IP Logged

puck Player Joined: 4/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 9/02/06 at 12:28pm
	Curses! I thought I was imune to to the Editing Magic. I think I had thought better of the Dreaded Editing Magic because of the delicate and nimble moves that those guys make, and thinking that it would be beyond tedious to do that with folks on top of eachother's shoulders. It needs to have a fluid organic motion to it, it can't appear too contrived.
	That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.
	IP Logged

castMe Celebrity Joined: 11/02/05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 206	Posted: 9/02/06 at 12:34pm
	Can you perform on platforms? Pop the puppets out of a trap door? Maybe you can incorporate your shadow idea into this and show part of the grown raw and some of it shadowed. I'd love to see the end result.
	Investigate. Imagine. Choose.
	IP Logged

puck Player Joined: 4/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 9/02/06 at 5:45pm
	I think, platforms Could work, but the design as it is now has a lot of other rolling / tracked units.
	That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.
	IP Logged

TimW Star Joined: 8/10/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 83	Posted: 9/02/06 at 6:22pm
	I think the telescopic idea is a great start. You can possibly have a wire attached from the actors foot to the top of the frame and back down to the costume (a pulley and cable system). If the actor is in a squatting position the cable is shortet and the costume is lower. When they stand up, the cable from the foot to the top of the rig gets longer raising the costume. Then maybe run control lines from the actors hands to the puppets hands on the inside. In my mind it works, maybe on paper. Good luck! Tim
	IP Logged

EddyZ Star Joined: 8/21/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 60	Posted: 9/03/06 at 9:10am
	There's a company out there somewhere, too, that makes 10-foot tall mascot puppets, for use in stadiums and whatnot. I tried to find their web site again yesterday for you, but I couldn't. If I run across it, I'll let you know, it might be a good place to start.
	EddyZ http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/ www.nailsouptheatre.com/
	IP Logged

EddyZ Star Joined: 8/21/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 60	Posted: 9/03/06 at 9:15am
	A-ha! Didn't find the exact site again, but this groups puppets are of a similar design: http://www.stiltwalker.com/giantpuppets.htm
	EddyZ http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/ www.nailsouptheatre.com/
	IP Logged

puck Player Joined: 4/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 9/04/06 at 2:53pm
	Tim, I love the pulley idea in principle! But that seems like it might get into wonky tension issues with the cables and I don't know...can you draw a picture maybe? EddyZ! Thank you! The links really helped break some things up in the mind...! I found some other ginormus puppet information, and methinks the Backpack idea will work for one of the 3 characters needed. It sounds like it wants to telescope in some way some how.
	That swift as quicksilver it courses through/The natural gates and alleys of the body,/And with a sudden vigor it doth posset/and curd,like eager droppings into milk,/The thin and wholesome blood.
	IP Logged

TimW Star Joined: 8/10/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 83	Posted: 9/06/06 at 4:41pm
	High Puck. I tried to get a drawing onto this site, but had no luck. Probably more me than the computer. So I will try this route. 1. Build a frame like a backpack (probably out of alumimum) using 'c' channel for the sides with the open side facing out. Use cross bracing to keep it square. Attach a small pulley to the top center of this frame. 2. Build another frame for the costume out of square tubing a little wider than the backpack frame. Height will vary upon the costume. Attach rollers to the costume part of the frame so they roll inside the 'c' channel part of the backpack frame. 3. Get or make a strap (similar to an excercise strap) for the foot. Run a line from this strap up through the pulley and down to the bottom of the costume frame. As long as the line from the pulley to the bottom anchor point is parrallel to the side of the frame, there shouldn't be much tension or twisting issues. I hope this will help. if you need a drawing, I could send one by fax or email.Until then I will try to fiqure this out.
	IP Logged

Topic: ja, das puppets!( Topic Closed)
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