Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Speeding up scene changes

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   As David notes, projection can be tricky for several reasons.  However I disagree on a few points.... 

Rear projection:  You can do rear projection with an ultrashort throw projector.  Of course that may be difficult to find at a good price.  So you could also reflect off a mirror.  Either of these methods can cut the distance in half.  Should you not have the space for even that, you can project on part  of the scrim.  Remember that some of the distance is lateral distance, and since you should n-e-v-e-r rear project onto a scrim from directly upstage--you should always project at a sharp angle to the scrim and adjust with the keystone adjustment.  (This is for the same reason that David mentions, scrims are fabrics with holes in them so some of the projection goes through the holes.  That produces 'hotspotting' and the light tends to blind your audience. Steep angles make for better projections).  BTW--don't rear project on sharkstooth.  Sharkstooth is a cotton fabric with relatively big holes when stretched.  You can imagine that cotton isn't as good a light transmission medium and the holes are huge--bad combo.

Front projection: With a sharkstooth and with projection from directly in front of the scrim, what David said is true.  Much of the projection goes through and can produce a ghost image.  That is why you still (in front projection) project from a steep angle.  With Chameleon scrim you can get some double image but far, far less. (It passes less light through holes, while the synthetic fibers transmit more light from the back).  

Sharkstooth scrim is definately not that good for projection, I'd say 'OK' not great--and really bad for rear projection.  Chameleon is 'good' for both types of projection (although not as good as a projection screen obviously).  Here's why: Chameleon has smaller and less regular holes in it.  These do not stretch out like sharkstooth's holes.  A denser surface, means less projection is 'lost' through the holes.  Also for rear projection, Chameleon is thinner and is composed of fibers that transmit the light better from back to front.  (I've had professional projection folks tell me they preferred it in side by side comparisons with rear projection screens.  What surprised me was that they preferred the dark grey Chameleon in that setting).  I'd say Chameleon isn't as good as a projection screen, but better than ordinary scrim.  Of course, I do sell the stuff.  So of course I'm a bit biased.  I always suggest that customers get sample swatches and test for themselves.  That's the only way you can be sure it will work the best for you.

Edited by vickifrank - 3/15/11 at 4:35pm

Author	Message
vickifrank Celebrity Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332	Posted: 3/15/11 at 4:20pm
	As David notes, projection can be tricky for several reasons. However I disagree on a few points.... Rear projection: You can do rear projection with an ultrashort throw projector. Of course that may be difficult to find at a good price. So you could also reflect off a mirror. Either of these methods can cut the distance in half. Should you not have the space for even that, you can project on part of the scrim. Remember that some of the distance is lateral distance, and since you should n-e-v-e-r rear project onto a scrim from directly upstage--you should always project at a sharp angle to the scrim and adjust with the keystone adjustment. (This is for the same reason that David mentions, scrims are fabrics with holes in them so some of the projection goes through the holes. That produces 'hotspotting' and the light tends to blind your audience. Steep angles make for better projections). BTW--don't rear project on sharkstooth. Sharkstooth is a cotton fabric with relatively big holes when stretched. You can imagine that cotton isn't as good a light transmission medium and the holes are huge--bad combo. Front projection: With a sharkstooth and with projection from directly in front of the scrim, what David said is true. Much of the projection goes through and can produce a ghost image. That is why you still (in front projection) project from a steep angle. With Chameleon scrim you can get some double image but far, far less. (It passes less light through holes, while the synthetic fibers transmit more light from the back). Sharkstooth scrim is definately not that good for projection, I'd say 'OK' not great--and really bad for rear projection. Chameleon is 'good' for both types of projection (although not as good as a projection screen obviously). Here's why: Chameleon has smaller and less regular holes in it. These do not stretch out like sharkstooth's holes. A denser surface, means less projection is 'lost' through the holes. Also for rear projection, Chameleon is thinner and is composed of fibers that transmit the light better from back to front. (I've had professional projection folks tell me they preferred it in side by side comparisons with rear projection screens. What surprised me was that they preferred the dark grey Chameleon in that setting). I'd say Chameleon isn't as good as a projection screen, but better than ordinary scrim. Of course, I do sell the stuff. So of course I'm a bit biased. I always suggest that customers get sample swatches and test for themselves. That's the only way you can be sure it will work the best for you. Edited by vickifrank - 3/15/11 at 4:35pm
	_____________ http://www.studio-productions-inc.com 1-800-359-2964 The theater scrim people
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Majicwrench Celebrity Joined: 2/07/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 178	Posted: 3/15/11 at 4:53pm
	So Peacock, chime in here, what slowed you guys down?? How do you think you can tighten it up?? BTW, wonderful discussion all.
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David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 3/15/11 at 5:54pm
	I tend to agree with a lot of that. Unfortunately I have not used your scrim material yet, but I believe you. You sent me a sample some time ago and it looks really interesting. I think I would be much happier with a darker scrim. The white sharkstooth scrim that came with the room really picks up the stray light. I've worked with a dark scrim before and it was much better.
	David M
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MusicManD Star Joined: 3/21/11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 91	Posted: 3/21/11 at 12:55pm
	The slow scene changes usually end up being a Stage Manager or set design issue. If the SM is efficient and the crew is sufficient and has everything assigned, even complex scene changes should be pretty quick. If your problem comes from something like hauling off flats and hauling on others, you might consider building triangle shaped 3 sided flats on wheels that can simply be turned for your use. The "book" style flats are also really great. I'm a huge fan of hiding things in plain sight. Maybe you have a huge set piece that needs to come on in Act II? Why not disguise it and work it into your set design for Act I? That way, rather than trying to bring on something difficult and complicated during intermission, you can just clear out your "camouflage" and be ready much more quickly. Of course, I deal with a tiny stage with almost no wing space and zero storage, so I have to make it work with minimal sets and hide things. Our musical used three basic sets- inside at a New York home, outside the summer house, and inside the summer house. On each side of the stage, we had a black flat and a white set of stairs. The third scene called for double stairs, while the first called for only one set. Rather than try to pull the stairs off and find a place to store them for the first scene, we simply threw a black drop cloth over them. Faded well into the black flat and with enough color in the foreground, was not noticeable. For the second scene, we did need a door that went into the house. I considered building a freestanding door frame, but we did already have a flat with a door frame built in- I opted to paint the flat black to match the other two and the door white. This represented the only major scene change in the show- my stage crew had to pull back one black flat and replace it with the "door" flat. They also tossed a drop cloth over the second set of stairs. For scene 3, they replaced the original black flat (during intermission) and pulled the cloths off of both staircases. Furniture and set dressing did the rest.
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David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 3/21/11 at 1:09pm
	vickifrank Have you found any way to join pieces of your scrim material together to make a larger drop. In our venue we typically use drops that are 20' tall by 48'-50' wide. I would guess that you would want to put together 3 20' x 16' pieces together. Edited by David McCall - 3/21/11 at 1:09pm
	David M
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peacock Star Joined: 3/03/09 Location: Bangladesh Online Status: Offline Posts: 58	Posted: 4/16/11 at 11:39am
	What slows us down? First, no fly space, 5' wings, no real backstage. Second, we were doing Get Smart which has gazillions of props (gadgets etc). Third, I think I make my sets too elaborate. Next am planning to do a play with one set. I guess I have always considered scene changes late in the planning process, but it sounds like I should think about them when I choose the play. So many of us on the site function with absolute minimum theaters, so it always helpful when people give simple and cheap suggestions.
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David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 4/16/11 at 6:35pm
	It can be tough working in a facility with so many limitations. However you can do a great show in any venue. It can sometimes take a lot of creativity and ingenuity. If you know the venue in advance, you can plan ahead by thinking through your scene changes as you design the set. The famous Goodspeed Opera House is an old town hall on the 4th floor with no fly and almost very limited wing space. The shows they do are really quite wonderful. They use a combination of sliding panels and the masterful use of roll up drops. There are ways of designing in such a way that everything can be on the stage at once, and you can use intermissions to swap out parts of the set. In some cases you can design your set pieces to hide large props used in other scenes. A turntable can hold 2 or 3 sets at a time, but it takes up a lot of space. You can build multiple smaller units that have 2-3 sides. You can tie 2 or 3 double sided flats tied together with double acting hinges (hinges can be made of fabric). By folding in them in different ways you can reveal different scenes. A set of 3 flats tied together into a triangle (Periaktoi) and rotated to reveal the 3 scenes.
	David M
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tech_director Star Joined: 10/19/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 53	Posted: 7/04/11 at 11:41pm
	I seriously cannot stand the idea of "no blackouts". I agree with trying to avoid blackouts but sometimes with the show you are working on in the space with the set requires that the stage go dark. Play some nice music and time it well. Audiences expect it. As an audience member, I quite enjoy them, it gives me a moment to soak up what just happened.
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