Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Transition from renting to owning our own theater

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TomT
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Joined: 3/19/11
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Topic: Transition from renting to owning our own theater
Posted: 4/07/11 at 5:30pm

We are a 30-year-old, 92 seat community theater in Redding, California, and we’re in a planning and fund-raising process that we expect to result in building, owning, and operating our own 240 seat theater facility. We currently have a building site and about half our funding. Our city is in support, and we have a great Capital Campaign committee.

None of us has been through this process before and we know there’s a lot we don’t know. What we would love is to talk with / hear about “lessons learned” from some folks who have been through a similar transition from renting to building and owning a theater facility.

If you have experience in this area, or know someone who does, we’d appreciate contact information so we can do a little brain picking. Success stories (and how they were achieved) would be most appreciated, but we’d also like to know about pitfalls to engineer out of our future. Thanks for any info you can share on this.
Tom Taylor - Riverfront Playhouse

Tom T

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David McCall
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Posted: 4/08/11 at 4:40pm

One thing that is almost always overlooked is the fact that you will need to add more wiring from show to show. Over the years you will need to run wires from everywhere in the room to every other place in the room. Extra speakers, lights in unexpected places, visiting sound systems and lighting, dressing room monitors, intercoms and many other things that may not even exist today. Legally, you can not run wires through doorways or punch holes in the walls.

You need to think about all of the places that you might want to hang a light someday and make sure there is structure there to mount the lights or structural points suitable for hanging a truss or pipe.

Putting power in the room is going to be expensive so have them put in plenty from the beginning. I'd like to see 200 amps 3 phase. That will probably give you enough for future expansion. Many shows use more than that today, but you may not be able to afford to pay the electric bill for more than that the way things are going. Also lights are getting more efficient so less power will be needed.

If you are going to fly stuff, I suggest something over 40' so that you can use 20' high drops. 40' is along way to go up on a lift to move things around or do maintenance. At that height I'd like to have a walk out grid. I'm getting too old to climb a ladder that far so I would want stairs if possible. One advantage to a walk out grid is that you can cut back on the number of line sets in the original install and add more later without a major install. Put in the infrastructure for plenty (perhaps 24 or more) so that you can expand.

Don't let the contractor talk you into buying a bunch of crappy equipment. Buy less or buy used to get quality. You can always add more as time goes by and you can always rent extra stuff. This applies all kinds of equipment.

Make a place to put the orchestra. It doesn't have to be a pit anymore, but that is still the norm. You might plan for a deeper pit, or even consider a lift in your design and just put in a temporary floor until you can afford to buy the lift. Any pit is better than no pit even if it is only 3' deep.

Those wonderful show rooms in Vegas are just huge black boxes with a lot of infrastructure so that they can completely re do the room when they change shows. The walls are essentially just big sets.

The long and short of it is to plan way ahead. It is highly unlikely that you will be able to buy everything you can think of right out of the gate, but you can think ahead and be sure that the infrastructure to support it is available.

Edited by David McCall - 4/08/11 at 4:45pm

David M

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JoeMc
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Posted: 4/08/11 at 10:08pm

The last time I had anything to do with building a comeatre, was at a regional centre about 200km's south west of here.

The theatre group found a 2 storey building up for sale in a local commercial area.

They fronted the bank & made a deal to pay the yearly interest on the principal sum to the bank, while taking possession of the building & converting it into their new theatre.

Which meant they had, like your group, about 50% of the buildings value in their saving account, which was freed up for the building conversion & equiping the theatre, with ongoing working capital.

After a few years the value of the properties in the area rose dramatically, so much so they eventualy paid out the principal sum to the bank & owned the building out right. I can't remember the real estate term/name for this type of transaction?

Have a word to your bank I'm sure this type of loan could be applied to building the theatre from scratch, as you have the land & fair amount already in the bank. The bank doesn't loose as they pick up the interest on their money & the comeatre profits with a theatre fully equipped, which can be owned at today's price later on in the future.

David is right about planning for the future needs of the theatre, that can be easily added or extended in the years to come.

In most instances with theatre I have found the most resources are put into the aesthetics, while the stage & ancillary equipment is cut back.

Architects are the worst for this & rarely listen to any input from theatre techies or concern themselves with function or a viably working venue

Edited by JoeMc - 4/08/11 at 10:41pm

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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JoeMc
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Posted: 4/12/11 at 12:32am

I found your proposed plan of the venue;-

DOWNLOAD THE CAPITAL CAMPAIGN BROCHURE

Having a quick squint at the plan it seems you may need to change around, so your 'loading dock'/'scene shop' buts directly on to the stage, rather than the 'greenroom/viewing area'. Which would give a flow through & better logistic access to the stage.

Edited by JoeMc - 4/12/11 at 12:46am

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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Rorgg
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Posted: 4/12/11 at 2:04pm

Joe, I was able to understand every word of those two posts.

You feeling all right, mate?

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JoeMc
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Posted: 4/12/11 at 11:59pm

G'donya cobber!

Sorry about that & thanks for your concern.

It could be because I have just spent a pleasent 2 weeks in the Cardiac ICU ward & it might be down to the stuff they pumped into me.

I should be back to normal in a week or so, when the drugs wear off?

Edited by JoeMc - 4/13/11 at 2:36am

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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David McCall
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Posted: 4/13/11 at 11:38am

Wow

I'm sorry to hear that your ticker is giving you trouble.

We all love you here and hope you have a fine recovery.

David

David M

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JoeMc
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Location: Australia
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Posted: 4/15/11 at 11:21pm

Thanks David!

I feel rather embarrassed & don't know what to say, which in its self is amassing.

The dicky ticker is all my fault for indulging in too much caffeine & nicotene over the years.

I had a quadruple 'cabage' bypass plumbing job on the old ticker & I believe I still have about 5 years left on the warranty period.

This time I went into 'Charlies' Hospital with high blood pressure & subsequently a heart attack while I was being examined in the Emergency Department, which I didn't realise this was happening at the time.

However I have now attained my 6th stroke, of whith only 2 being major. Besides all that rubbish the Quack tell me I have had a successful recovery, not sure what they mean by that. as I have never been a success in my life!

Except I'm now visually impaired in my left eye & keep walking into doors,walls & people on my port side @ least that's my excuse!

Thanks again!

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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jayzehr
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Posted: 4/16/11 at 5:11pm

Oh, man! Sorry to hear that, Joe.

We'll be sending you some white light from up here... Smile

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JoeMc
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Joined: 3/13/06
Location: Australia
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Posted: 4/16/11 at 11:52pm

Thanks jay!

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

IP Logged

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Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Theater Administration :Running Your Theater

Topic: Transition from renting to owning our own theater
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Author	Message
TomT Walk-On Joined: 3/19/11 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4	Topic: Transition from renting to owning our own theater Posted: 4/07/11 at 5:30pm
	We are a 30-year-old, 92 seat community theater in Redding, California, and we’re in a planning and fund-raising process that we expect to result in building, owning, and operating our own 240 seat theater facility. We currently have a building site and about half our funding. Our city is in support, and we have a great Capital Campaign committee. None of us has been through this process before and we know there’s a lot we don’t know. What we would love is to talk with / hear about “lessons learned” from some folks who have been through a similar transition from renting to building and owning a theater facility. If you have experience in this area, or know someone who does, we’d appreciate contact information so we can do a little brain picking. Success stories (and how they were achieved) would be most appreciated, but we’d also like to know about pitfalls to engineer out of our future. Thanks for any info you can share on this. Tom Taylor - Riverfront Playhouse
	Tom T

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David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 4/08/11 at 4:40pm
	One thing that is almost always overlooked is the fact that you will need to add more wiring from show to show. Over the years you will need to run wires from everywhere in the room to every other place in the room. Extra speakers, lights in unexpected places, visiting sound systems and lighting, dressing room monitors, intercoms and many other things that may not even exist today. Legally, you can not run wires through doorways or punch holes in the walls. You need to think about all of the places that you might want to hang a light someday and make sure there is structure there to mount the lights or structural points suitable for hanging a truss or pipe. Putting power in the room is going to be expensive so have them put in plenty from the beginning. I'd like to see 200 amps 3 phase. That will probably give you enough for future expansion. Many shows use more than that today, but you may not be able to afford to pay the electric bill for more than that the way things are going. Also lights are getting more efficient so less power will be needed. If you are going to fly stuff, I suggest something over 40' so that you can use 20' high drops. 40' is along way to go up on a lift to move things around or do maintenance. At that height I'd like to have a walk out grid. I'm getting too old to climb a ladder that far so I would want stairs if possible. One advantage to a walk out grid is that you can cut back on the number of line sets in the original install and add more later without a major install. Put in the infrastructure for plenty (perhaps 24 or more) so that you can expand. Don't let the contractor talk you into buying a bunch of crappy equipment. Buy less or buy used to get quality. You can always add more as time goes by and you can always rent extra stuff. This applies all kinds of equipment. Make a place to put the orchestra. It doesn't have to be a pit anymore, but that is still the norm. You might plan for a deeper pit, or even consider a lift in your design and just put in a temporary floor until you can afford to buy the lift. Any pit is better than no pit even if it is only 3' deep. Those wonderful show rooms in Vegas are just huge black boxes with a lot of infrastructure so that they can completely re do the room when they change shows. The walls are essentially just big sets. The long and short of it is to plan way ahead. It is highly unlikely that you will be able to buy everything you can think of right out of the gate, but you can think ahead and be sure that the infrastructure to support it is available. Edited by David McCall - 4/08/11 at 4:45pm
	David M
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JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/08/11 at 10:08pm
	The last time I had anything to do with building a comeatre, was at a regional centre about 200km's south west of here. The theatre group found a 2 storey building up for sale in a local commercial area. They fronted the bank & made a deal to pay the yearly interest on the principal sum to the bank, while taking possession of the building & converting it into their new theatre. Which meant they had, like your group, about 50% of the buildings value in their saving account, which was freed up for the building conversion & equiping the theatre, with ongoing working capital. After a few years the value of the properties in the area rose dramatically, so much so they eventualy paid out the principal sum to the bank & owned the building out right. I can't remember the real estate term/name for this type of transaction? Have a word to your bank I'm sure this type of loan could be applied to building the theatre from scratch, as you have the land & fair amount already in the bank. The bank doesn't loose as they pick up the interest on their money & the comeatre profits with a theatre fully equipped, which can be owned at today's price later on in the future. David is right about planning for the future needs of the theatre, that can be easily added or extended in the years to come. In most instances with theatre I have found the most resources are put into the aesthetics, while the stage & ancillary equipment is cut back. Architects are the worst for this & rarely listen to any input from theatre techies or concern themselves with function or a viably working venue Edited by JoeMc - 4/08/11 at 10:41pm
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/12/11 at 12:32am
	I found your proposed plan of the venue;- DOWNLOAD THE CAPITAL CAMPAIGN BROCHURE Having a quick squint at the plan it seems you may need to change around, so your 'loading dock'/'scene shop' buts directly on to the stage, rather than the 'greenroom/viewing area'. Which would give a flow through & better logistic access to the stage. Edited by JoeMc - 4/12/11 at 12:46am
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

Rorgg Celebrity Joined: 2/10/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 151	Posted: 4/12/11 at 2:04pm
	Joe, I was able to understand every word of those two posts. You feeling all right, mate?
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/12/11 at 11:59pm
	G'donya cobber! Sorry about that & thanks for your concern. It could be because I have just spent a pleasent 2 weeks in the Cardiac ICU ward & it might be down to the stuff they pumped into me. I should be back to normal in a week or so, when the drugs wear off? Edited by JoeMc - 4/13/11 at 2:36am
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 4/13/11 at 11:38am
	Wow I'm sorry to hear that your ticker is giving you trouble. We all love you here and hope you have a fine recovery. David
	David M
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/15/11 at 11:21pm
	Thanks David! I feel rather embarrassed & don't know what to say, which in its self is amassing. The dicky ticker is all my fault for indulging in too much caffeine & nicotene over the years. I had a quadruple 'cabage' bypass plumbing job on the old ticker & I believe I still have about 5 years left on the warranty period. This time I went into 'Charlies' Hospital with high blood pressure & subsequently a heart attack while I was being examined in the Emergency Department, which I didn't realise this was happening at the time. However I have now attained my 6th stroke, of whith only 2 being major. Besides all that rubbish the Quack tell me I have had a successful recovery, not sure what they mean by that. as I have never been a success in my life! Except I'm now visually impaired in my left eye & keep walking into doors,walls & people on my port side @ least that's my excuse! Thanks again!
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 4/16/11 at 5:11pm
	Oh, man! Sorry to hear that, Joe. We'll be sending you some white light from up here...
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/16/11 at 11:52pm
	Thanks jay!
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged