Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: the Stage

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stevensp
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Topic: the Stage - Architecture Masterproject
Posted: 3/05/11 at 5:33pm

Hello forum,

I'm new here and I already ask for your help.
I am an Architecture Master student here in Brussels, Belgium. Currently Im starting on my masterproject. The subject I work on is the stage (the scène)
It's an exploration project so basically it comes to this:

Me, as architecture-student, is starting a form/shape/volume research where I put my ideas of the stage into a new 'space'... About how I think stories can be told/performances can be performed.
With the research I do, I want to get in contact with performers, stage designers, dancers, ... and get their feedback, get their reactions of what they could do with that space. So i dont start with the basic stage where you have audience vs. performers, but we start with another 'starting-sheet, starting-platform'. Researching how that platform could look like intereses me.

Some images to represent my ideas:
(white is audience, black are the performers)

f.e: the quality and symbolic power of the stair

more images and texts : http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/

So, if any of you would be interested to think more about these settings, about possibilities, or if someone just would like to give his opinion about it, or his doubts, Id love to hear and you would absolutely help me a lot.

Thanks in advance, Steven
Aswell you are welcome to contact me by email, or just reply on the forum :)

Architecture student
visit my webpage for info about my projects: http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/

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edh915
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Location: United States
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Posts: 325

Posted: 3/06/11 at 2:31pm

Both spaces are intriguing.

You can't, however, create a performance space without regard to its intended function. You must have an audience/performer relationship. It doesn't have to be the traditional auditorium with actors on a platform in front of rows of seats. But you do need to design a space that will allow the director of a show to focus the audience's attention to one spot or another for dramatic impact. Loss of focus represents loss of effective audience/performer interaction.

Your first space can be used, but you will sacrifice intimacy. Imaging how your particular entertainment would appear to people sitting in the near seats with action taking place in the far performance area. The design of that space limits the audience's ability to become involved in the proceedings.

The second performance space is a little more traditional. I could work with this design. It has a traditional arena feel to it, and could be utilized effectively.

Since form must necessarily follow function, you can't allow the needs of your audience to be ignored.

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David McCall
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Posted: 3/06/11 at 4:39pm

look like they would encourage the audience to directly interact with the actors. Some people would feel that to be a good thing, but I would be in fear of what might happen next.

Both look as though the audience would have to be very small. They look like something the audience would wander around to listen in on what is happening in the various areas of the space, rather than sitting down to watch a show.

In any case, I would not think of either design to be appropriate as a performance space, but rather an environment designed to fit an experimental piece.

There are "rules" to designing theaters. You must consider the number of seats. The view of the performance needs to be considered for every seat. You must eliminate any trip hazards because they can cause death and/or injury in a fire or other emergency.

David M

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JoeMc
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Posted: 3/06/11 at 9:47pm

To me they have the feel pf a TV studio where the punters are inside the camera & little things like sight lines or scene changes. can be effected instantly by switching the audience around.

Also it has smatterings of the theatres of the 1800's, where the punters paid a premium to sit on the stage & hold discourse with the performers.

But from a techie point of view I would imagine it to be a nightmare to light or perform set functions.

Frankly I applauded your endeavour, rather than being just another 'aesthetic achytech' where function is unimportant. Unlike Mrs Jones little knave gurle Inigo & his introduction of the Proscenium Arch Theatre concept into Britain, back in the 1600's witch is still used widely to this day - bless his cotton hose!

Edited by JoeMc - 3/06/11 at 11:10pm

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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David McCall
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Posted: 3/07/11 at 11:06am

You are right that it is good to see people trying to push the limits and seek out new ideas. To me a theater is a big box that has suitable structure for hanging lights and sets and plenty power available. Everything else can be added later. The black box concept is great for doing the sort of experimental work that Steven is showing an interest in.

When I first read his post, I thought he was trying to design an actual performance space to be used for many shows rather than an experimental space to stretch the boundaries of performance art.

David M

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stevensp
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Posted: 3/07/11 at 4:13pm

Thanks for all the replies...
It is very interesting and useful for me to read your feedback...

In general, I think a good architecture-exploration is finding a balance between abstractism (like the black box thing you guys mentioned) and realism... I think at one point a project got to get somehow into reality (let's call it a stage, a scène). This can be in the shape of an theatrebuilding, but maybe the research will push it more in the direction of a square, a light and open construction. At this point in my research it can still be quite abstract, but somehow I already want to slowly add some reality in it.
F.e. yesterday night I made this, http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/post/3689149332/city-as-stage-further-development-of-my which is quite abstract thinking of the city as inspiration for forms of theatre... on the other hand it helps to explain an idea, a way of thinking, and makes it easier to get parts/elements of it realistic. The same way I make this little scale models...

Based on your comments I higlighted some interesting words I think are very interesting for me.

edh915:
the need of a clear audience/performer relationship + audience's focus + intimacy
These aspects indeed are very important.. and this can be a tricky point.. because I think I as an architectstudent have a different points of view on this relationship, and maybe I have a wrong point of view. The needs of the audience are important, and it might be useful if I make these needs clear early in my project-development.

David McCall:
interaction / experimental piece + the rules of designing theaters: I like your reply a lot... you have a more realistic view... but as you said in your 2nd post Im more thinking in the black-box concept right now. Although I think elements like circulation (for the people who enter) is very important, aswell the relationship of my, lets call it a theatre construction, with the rest of the city, with the exterior.... I think a theatre doesnt only needs to make telling stories possible... i think the theatre itself needs to be able to tell a story to its enviroment.

JoeMc:
sight lines/TV studio + premium seats, discourse with the performers: Those are two very interesting aspects... and nice to presentate me this... history can learn us things... those sight lines is something that interesses me too, but its quite a difficult subject I think, where I dont have experience with on scale of theatre... but which interests me, do you maybe have any examples of that?

I already want to thank you guys a lot for the feedback... This discussion already opened nice perspectives for us I think... Please keep on commenting with any questions, facts or doubts you have. From very abstract to very realistic.

Architecture student
visit my webpage for info about my projects: http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/

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David McCall
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Location: United States
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Posted: 3/07/11 at 5:03pm

You have 3D rendering capabilities, so you can check your sight-lines from anywhere. Instead of looking at your creations from the sky, try moving your "camera" to locations you would expect the eyes of your audience to be.

The "black box" is just an empty container. It's purpose is to act as a blank space that can be transformed into whatever you can imagine. In many cases there are no permanent seats so that the audience seating can be placed as needed to fit around the set. It is very much the same as a big TV studio. We paint them black because the audience has come to learn that anything that is black is not a part of the scene and can be completely ignored. The reason that it is usually a box is that it is easier to fit things into a box than it would be if the room had more of a shape.

There are also acoustic considerations that give reason to vary from the box shape. parallel surface cause echos and unhelpful resonance. When you build a box you have to use soft surfaces to absorb those reflections.

The proscenium theater makes a compromise here. by splitting the space into the auditorium (which usually have no parallel surfaces) and the stage house (which is most often a simple box). Most of the time the stage will either have a lot of soft fabric (usually black) that is there to block your view of backstage lighting and such, or there will be what we call a "box set" however these are rarely true boxes in that the surfaces are not parallel.

Your designs would be a better fit for a gallery or exploratorium where thee audience moves through the space and discovers different things in various parts of the space. While this can surely be theatrical in nature, I wouldn't call it theare.

(A theater is the structure in which you can perform theatre)

Edited by David McCall - 3/07/11 at 5:08pm

David M

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
stevensp Walk-On Joined: 3/05/11 Location: Belgium Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: the Stage - Architecture Masterproject Posted: 3/05/11 at 5:33pm
	Hello forum, I'm new here and I already ask for your help. I am an Architecture Master student here in Brussels, Belgium. Currently Im starting on my masterproject. The subject I work on is the stage (the scène) It's an exploration project so basically it comes to this: Me, as architecture-student, is starting a form/shape/volume research where I put my ideas of the stage into a new 'space'... About how I think stories can be told/performances can be performed. With the research I do, I want to get in contact with performers, stage designers, dancers, ... and get their feedback, get their reactions of what they could do with that space. So i dont start with the basic stage where you have audience vs. performers, but we start with another 'starting-sheet, starting-platform'. Researching how that platform could look like intereses me. Some images to represent my ideas: (white is audience, black are the performers) f.e: the quality and symbolic power of the stair more images and texts : http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/ So, if any of you would be interested to think more about these settings, about possibilities, or if someone just would like to give his opinion about it, or his doubts, Id love to hear and you would absolutely help me a lot. Thanks in advance, Steven Aswell you are welcome to contact me by email, or just reply on the forum :)
	Architecture student visit my webpage for info about my projects: http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/

	IP Logged

edh915 Celebrity Joined: 11/19/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 3/06/11 at 2:31pm
	Both spaces are intriguing. You can't, however, create a performance space without regard to its intended function. You must have an audience/performer relationship. It doesn't have to be the traditional auditorium with actors on a platform in front of rows of seats. But you do need to design a space that will allow the director of a show to focus the audience's attention to one spot or another for dramatic impact. Loss of focus represents loss of effective audience/performer interaction. Your first space can be used, but you will sacrifice intimacy. Imaging how your particular entertainment would appear to people sitting in the near seats with action taking place in the far performance area. The design of that space limits the audience's ability to become involved in the proceedings. The second performance space is a little more traditional. I could work with this design. It has a traditional arena feel to it, and could be utilized effectively. Since form must necessarily follow function, you can't allow the needs of your audience to be ignored.
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 3/06/11 at 4:39pm
	look like they would encourage the audience to directly interact with the actors. Some people would feel that to be a good thing, but I would be in fear of what might happen next. Both look as though the audience would have to be very small. They look like something the audience would wander around to listen in on what is happening in the various areas of the space, rather than sitting down to watch a show. In any case, I would not think of either design to be appropriate as a performance space, but rather an environment designed to fit an experimental piece. There are "rules" to designing theaters. You must consider the number of seats. The view of the performance needs to be considered for every seat. You must eliminate any trip hazards because they can cause death and/or injury in a fire or other emergency.
	David M
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 3/06/11 at 9:47pm
	To me they have the feel pf a TV studio where the punters are inside the camera & little things like sight lines or scene changes. can be effected instantly by switching the audience around. Also it has smatterings of the theatres of the 1800's, where the punters paid a premium to sit on the stage & hold discourse with the performers. But from a techie point of view I would imagine it to be a nightmare to light or perform set functions. Frankly I applauded your endeavour, rather than being just another 'aesthetic achytech' where function is unimportant. Unlike Mrs Jones little knave gurle Inigo & his introduction of the Proscenium Arch Theatre concept into Britain, back in the 1600's witch is still used widely to this day - bless his cotton hose! Edited by JoeMc - 3/06/11 at 11:10pm
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 3/07/11 at 11:06am
	You are right that it is good to see people trying to push the limits and seek out new ideas. To me a theater is a big box that has suitable structure for hanging lights and sets and plenty power available. Everything else can be added later. The black box concept is great for doing the sort of experimental work that Steven is showing an interest in. When I first read his post, I thought he was trying to design an actual performance space to be used for many shows rather than an experimental space to stretch the boundaries of performance art.
	David M
	IP Logged

stevensp Walk-On Joined: 3/05/11 Location: Belgium Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 3/07/11 at 4:13pm
	Thanks for all the replies... It is very interesting and useful for me to read your feedback... In general, I think a good architecture-exploration is finding a balance between abstractism (like the black box thing you guys mentioned) and realism... I think at one point a project got to get somehow into reality (let's call it a stage, a scène). This can be in the shape of an theatrebuilding, but maybe the research will push it more in the direction of a square, a light and open construction. At this point in my research it can still be quite abstract, but somehow I already want to slowly add some reality in it. F.e. yesterday night I made this, http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/post/3689149332/city-as-stage-further-development-of-my which is quite abstract thinking of the city as inspiration for forms of theatre... on the other hand it helps to explain an idea, a way of thinking, and makes it easier to get parts/elements of it realistic. The same way I make this little scale models... Based on your comments I higlighted some interesting words I think are very interesting for me. edh915: the need of a clear audience/performer relationship + audience's focus + intimacy These aspects indeed are very important.. and this can be a tricky point.. because I think I as an architectstudent have a different points of view on this relationship, and maybe I have a wrong point of view. The needs of the audience are important, and it might be useful if I make these needs clear early in my project-development. David McCall: interaction / experimental piece + the rules of designing theaters: I like your reply a lot... you have a more realistic view... but as you said in your 2nd post Im more thinking in the black-box concept right now. Although I think elements like circulation (for the people who enter) is very important, aswell the relationship of my, lets call it a theatre construction, with the rest of the city, with the exterior.... I think a theatre doesnt only needs to make telling stories possible... i think the theatre itself needs to be able to tell a story to its enviroment. JoeMc: sight lines/TV studio + premium seats, discourse with the performers: Those are two very interesting aspects... and nice to presentate me this... history can learn us things... those sight lines is something that interesses me too, but its quite a difficult subject I think, where I dont have experience with on scale of theatre... but which interests me, do you maybe have any examples of that? I already want to thank you guys a lot for the feedback... This discussion already opened nice perspectives for us I think... Please keep on commenting with any questions, facts or doubts you have. From very abstract to very realistic.
	Architecture student visit my webpage for info about my projects: http://stevenspapen.tumblr.com/
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 3/07/11 at 5:03pm
	You have 3D rendering capabilities, so you can check your sight-lines from anywhere. Instead of looking at your creations from the sky, try moving your "camera" to locations you would expect the eyes of your audience to be. The "black box" is just an empty container. It's purpose is to act as a blank space that can be transformed into whatever you can imagine. In many cases there are no permanent seats so that the audience seating can be placed as needed to fit around the set. It is very much the same as a big TV studio. We paint them black because the audience has come to learn that anything that is black is not a part of the scene and can be completely ignored. The reason that it is usually a box is that it is easier to fit things into a box than it would be if the room had more of a shape. There are also acoustic considerations that give reason to vary from the box shape. parallel surface cause echos and unhelpful resonance. When you build a box you have to use soft surfaces to absorb those reflections. The proscenium theater makes a compromise here. by splitting the space into the auditorium (which usually have no parallel surfaces) and the stage house (which is most often a simple box). Most of the time the stage will either have a lot of soft fabric (usually black) that is there to block your view of backstage lighting and such, or there will be what we call a "box set" however these are rarely true boxes in that the surfaces are not parallel. Your designs would be a better fit for a gallery or exploratorium where thee audience moves through the space and discovers different things in various parts of the space. While this can surely be theatrical in nature, I wouldn't call it theare. (A theater is the structure in which you can perform theatre) Edited by David McCall - 3/07/11 at 5:08pm
	David M
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