Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Ground supported cyc advice

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Irishgirl
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Topic: Ground supported cyc advice
Posted: 1/29/11 at 4:00pm

I am directing a play at a HS; we will be performing in the stage of the multipurpose room at the elementary school.

In my dreamworld, we would have a cyc for our backdrop, which is just the open prairie, so I'd like it to be a nice blue.

Is this possible?

Current set up-- There is no fly system. A parent who is a stagehand said I'd have to have a ground supported cyc with pipe. The cyc size would be about 15' x 18'. Also lighting it seems like it could be challenging, as current lighting is just a fixed set which provides a clear wash onstage. Would I light the cyc from the side? How much space do I need for cyc lighting?

Looking at renting additional lighting, which I guess would also have to be ground supported. I would love to be able to isolate US/DS for different scenes.

Parent suggested Leprechaun dimmer series (a 6 pack) which would plug into 3 separate 20 amp circuits in order to be able to dim specials. Not sure if I rent or buy this. Power sources are an issue.

I have a good sized budget for lighting and sets-- 1K-2K.

Suggestions? How to go about this? Rent vs. buy? Is it even worth the trouble? I'd love for this to look as professional as possible. We are a new performing arts HS and this is our first show! Thanks in advance for your advice.

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JoeMc
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Posted: 1/29/11 at 11:42pm

I assume the cyc/backdrop is 15" high & 18' wide?

With support poles I think you'd be pushing it up hill with nose.

Even with the slip/lock type adjustable poles you will have more problems than you could wavave a stick at!

http://www.theatricalsupplies.com.au/drapesupport.html

At my old comeatre we had a few of these which were great for a quick masking job. but they could be a hassle trying to anchor them from over head & they only went up to 14'.

They are great for drape support but I have reservations in using them with a cyclorama.

normally in schools they have suspended ceilings especially in theatoriums or gymeatres. If so would it not be easier to just pop up the ceiling tiles, then dead hang a head batten [pipe] , utilising the anchor points of the ceiling suspension rods & tie off the cyc head batten.

Edited by JoeMc - 1/30/11 at 12:15am

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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David McCall
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Posted: 1/30/11 at 12:58am

I agree with Joe that you need to go overhead if at all possible. Do check that out Further.

The pipe and drape systems are OK for trade show booth and traffic control, but they don't tent to have a lot of theatrical applications. They would not give you any way to hang a smooth cyc. What you want is a small truss with some way to get it in the air. There are crank-up solutions for that.

You need to know what you have available for power available.

If there is a professional cam-lock tie-in or a friendly licensed electrician you can connect a dimmer rack and light normally.

If there are a lot of known good 20A wall circuits you can get away with portable dimmers like the leprechaun product mentioned in the original post, or little 4-packs. Each 4-pack on it's own 20 amp circuit can handle 4 x 600 watt lights.

There are sometimes "Range Plug" style connectors and other specialized connector designs that would require customized solutions.

The best way to light a cyc with real cyc lights, but they are usually 1000 watts per cell, and you would need at least 2 if not 3 cells per color. We usually like to have 3 colors. 9000 watts is quite a bit of power.

Some people use low wattage Zip Strips to light cycs from fairly close, but the light isn't very even. You will need enough of these lights to make a continuous strip the width of the cyc.

Another option is LED style strips. These lights are very efficient and can plug into ordinary wall outlets. The don't need separate dimmers because the dimmers are built in. You do have to string DMX control wires to every unit. They have the most of the same limitations as the zip strips. They are cheap to operate, but expensive to rent or by.

David M

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JoeMc
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Location: Australia
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Posted: 1/30/11 at 6:50am

Also as David suggested a qualified sparky can help, however for your info here is an Ohms Law calculator;-

http://www.csgnetwork.com/ohmslaw2.html

This may help your understanding in power usage ect,.

As for general lighting you could look at hiring light trees, with say 6 lantens, usualy these are par cans, but fresnel [soft edge] & profile [hard edge] can also be mounted on the tree. Also for H&S issues you will need to anchor them securily, as they do have a tendancy if acidently knocked to commit suicide.

It may be better to have a good wongy [yakity yak] with a local lighting hire company.

Edited by JoeMc - 1/30/11 at 11:38pm

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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David McCall
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Joined: 1/28/09
Location: United States
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Posts: 299

Posted: 1/30/11 at 12:45pm

I've never heard of having a wongy, but it sounds like a good idea. That was the main thing I meant to put into my last post, but I had a senior moment and forgot it. The OP really needs to get a professional in to take a look at the venue and give some advice. It sounds like a fairly extensive rental is in the offing, so she might do well to get 2 or 3 opinions from people that are willing to come in and solve her issue.

Being a performing arts school, they may need to do more shows in this venue, and it may make sense to arrange for some dead hung pipes installed for rigging a cyc and lights. For those that don't know, dead hung means that they are attached to the building's overhead structure at a fixed height and are not easily adjusted. This is usually not all that expensive to do.

David

David M

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Irishgirl
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Location: United States
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Posted: 1/30/11 at 1:01pm

Thanks very much for the input. I am definitely out of my league with this one! Will get some professionals in to advise after looking at the set up in person. I mis-spoke about the size; the actual cyc size would be 12 x 15.

Thanks again.

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David McCall
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Location: United States
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Posted: 1/30/11 at 1:59pm

12' x 15' is a lot more manageable, but even 15' is a pretty big span to cover from the floor without knowing what you are doing. Yes, you really need to get advice from people that have the knowlege to actually solve your problem.

Once you have someone do it for you once or twice and you are satisfied with the result, then you might consider buying some of your of equipment.

David M

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Lights and Sound
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound

Author	Message
Irishgirl Walk-On Joined: 1/24/11 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Topic: Ground supported cyc advice Posted: 1/29/11 at 4:00pm
	I am directing a play at a HS; we will be performing in the stage of the multipurpose room at the elementary school. In my dreamworld, we would have a cyc for our backdrop, which is just the open prairie, so I'd like it to be a nice blue. Is this possible? Current set up-- There is no fly system. A parent who is a stagehand said I'd have to have a ground supported cyc with pipe. The cyc size would be about 15' x 18'. Also lighting it seems like it could be challenging, as current lighting is just a fixed set which provides a clear wash onstage. Would I light the cyc from the side? How much space do I need for cyc lighting? Looking at renting additional lighting, which I guess would also have to be ground supported. I would love to be able to isolate US/DS for different scenes. Parent suggested Leprechaun dimmer series (a 6 pack) which would plug into 3 separate 20 amp circuits in order to be able to dim specials. Not sure if I rent or buy this. Power sources are an issue. I have a good sized budget for lighting and sets-- 1K-2K. Suggestions? How to go about this? Rent vs. buy? Is it even worth the trouble? I'd love for this to look as professional as possible. We are a new performing arts HS and this is our first show! Thanks in advance for your advice.

	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 1/29/11 at 11:42pm
	I assume the cyc/backdrop is 15" high & 18' wide? With support poles I think you'd be pushing it up hill with nose. Even with the slip/lock type adjustable poles you will have more problems than you could wavave a stick at! http://www.theatricalsupplies.com.au/drapesupport.html At my old comeatre we had a few of these which were great for a quick masking job. but they could be a hassle trying to anchor them from over head & they only went up to 14'. They are great for drape support but I have reservations in using them with a cyclorama. normally in schools they have suspended ceilings especially in theatoriums or gymeatres. If so would it not be easier to just pop up the ceiling tiles, then dead hang a head batten [pipe] , utilising the anchor points of the ceiling suspension rods & tie off the cyc head batten. Edited by JoeMc - 1/30/11 at 12:15am
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 1/30/11 at 12:58am
	I agree with Joe that you need to go overhead if at all possible. Do check that out Further. The pipe and drape systems are OK for trade show booth and traffic control, but they don't tent to have a lot of theatrical applications. They would not give you any way to hang a smooth cyc. What you want is a small truss with some way to get it in the air. There are crank-up solutions for that. You need to know what you have available for power available. If there is a professional cam-lock tie-in or a friendly licensed electrician you can connect a dimmer rack and light normally. If there are a lot of known good 20A wall circuits you can get away with portable dimmers like the leprechaun product mentioned in the original post, or little 4-packs. Each 4-pack on it's own 20 amp circuit can handle 4 x 600 watt lights. There are sometimes "Range Plug" style connectors and other specialized connector designs that would require customized solutions. The best way to light a cyc with real cyc lights, but they are usually 1000 watts per cell, and you would need at least 2 if not 3 cells per color. We usually like to have 3 colors. 9000 watts is quite a bit of power. Some people use low wattage Zip Strips to light cycs from fairly close, but the light isn't very even. You will need enough of these lights to make a continuous strip the width of the cyc. Another option is LED style strips. These lights are very efficient and can plug into ordinary wall outlets. The don't need separate dimmers because the dimmers are built in. You do have to string DMX control wires to every unit. They have the most of the same limitations as the zip strips. They are cheap to operate, but expensive to rent or by.
	David M
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 1/30/11 at 6:50am
	Also as David suggested a qualified sparky can help, however for your info here is an Ohms Law calculator;- http://www.csgnetwork.com/ohmslaw2.html This may help your understanding in power usage ect,. As for general lighting you could look at hiring light trees, with say 6 lantens, usualy these are par cans, but fresnel [soft edge] & profile [hard edge] can also be mounted on the tree. Also for H&S issues you will need to anchor them securily, as they do have a tendancy if acidently knocked to commit suicide. It may be better to have a good wongy [yakity yak] with a local lighting hire company. Edited by JoeMc - 1/30/11 at 11:38pm
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 1/30/11 at 12:45pm
	I've never heard of having a wongy, but it sounds like a good idea. That was the main thing I meant to put into my last post, but I had a senior moment and forgot it. The OP really needs to get a professional in to take a look at the venue and give some advice. It sounds like a fairly extensive rental is in the offing, so she might do well to get 2 or 3 opinions from people that are willing to come in and solve her issue. Being a performing arts school, they may need to do more shows in this venue, and it may make sense to arrange for some dead hung pipes installed for rigging a cyc and lights. For those that don't know, dead hung means that they are attached to the building's overhead structure at a fixed height and are not easily adjusted. This is usually not all that expensive to do. David
	David M
	IP Logged

Irishgirl Walk-On Joined: 1/24/11 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Posted: 1/30/11 at 1:01pm
	Thanks very much for the input. I am definitely out of my league with this one! Will get some professionals in to advise after looking at the set up in person. I mis-spoke about the size; the actual cyc size would be 12 x 15. Thanks again.
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 1/30/11 at 1:59pm
	12' x 15' is a lot more manageable, but even 15' is a pretty big span to cover from the floor without knowing what you are doing. Yes, you really need to get advice from people that have the knowlege to actually solve your problem. Once you have someone do it for you once or twice and you are satisfied with the result, then you might consider buying some of your of equipment.
	David M
	IP Logged