Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Why is it wrong to give a line reading?

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peacock
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Topic: Why is it wrong to give a line reading?
Posted: 1/12/11 at 2:17am

I am an amateur director, never had any official acting classes. I have picked up from my readings that directors should never, ever give a line reading to an actor. My question is why? I work at an international school, and some of my students do not have the most fluent English. They would never get some lines right if someone doesn't help them.

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jayzehr
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Posted: 1/12/11 at 7:18am

I'd say just forget about any concern with giving line readings if you're directing non-native English speakers.

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Tallsor
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Posted: 1/12/11 at 12:17pm

Peacock,

The 'don't give a line reading' is primarily because line reading denotes character. You want the actor to come up with his/her own approach to the part, and having a line interpreted one way versus another delves into that.

There have been times when I've given a line read when I know I want the character to go in a certain direction and other approaches (i.e., talks with the actor as to what result I'm hoping for) fail.

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Majicwrench
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Posted: 1/12/11 at 12:25pm

Peacock,

NO set rules as far as I am concerned. THis is theatre, not math.

I give line reading to actors at times and see nothing wrong with it.

Your fellow amateur,

Keith

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edh915
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Posted: 1/12/11 at 12:49pm

jayzehr is right. If it's a matter of a lack of familiarity with the language, then by all means let the actor know where the normal word emphasis lies.

Under ordinary circumstances it's not really advisable to give an actor a specific line reading - emphasizing a particular word, for example - because it's almost certainly not going to come out right; sounding smooth and natural. If the actor doesn't "feel" it, no amount of coaching is going to get through to him/her. You're better off to make sure that the actor understands the motivation behind the speech, then even though it's not the way you would say it, the feeling behind it will be in line with the characterization that you want.

Am I making any sense here?

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MartyW
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Posted: 1/12/11 at 1:44pm

It is a very fine line.... In your case, as previously stated, your actor's may not be familiar enough with the language to get where they need to be. Often, we face this problem with older, less used words in English with English speakers, or when asked to pronounce an English word with a specific dialect in mind. That's probably your problem.

As for the "rule" it is as also previously stated, to allow the actor to make his own choices. The problem I sometimes have with that is that, dependent on the actor's skill sets (face it, most all of us are amateur) he may not be able to find that emotion without example. OR I am not able to get what I need from them by explaining, all I'm left with is example. Unfortunately, to often when I try to "leave it with the actor" I don't get the feel I need for my vision. So yes, I do, from time to time, give line reads. Just like, after several other attempts, I will get on stage and show the movement I want or show a piece of business that is just not going right.

My bottom line, at least at this point, is that I acknowledge the "rule" and realize that it comes from the professional theater. I try to follow it, but I am tired of not getting what I want and will often still give line reads .... I know, I should be ashamed...

Marty W

"Till next we trod the boards.."

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TonyDi
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Posted: 1/13/11 at 7:35am

Here I go again - get ready.....!!! LINE READINGS - oh boy, what a can of worms. Here again I think this harks back to academia more than it does in professional theater - they tell you that you MUST create the character and that no-one should give you much beyond direction of where to stand on stage and other more innocuous things - but NEVER line readings given to your cast/actors by the director. Heaven forbid! In more professional situations, there simply is less NEED to do that but still does and should remain as a means to demonstrate in the interest of time and expediency, what you as director want from the actor without the need for B.S. ideas to get them to "find it" themselves.

SORRY that's hogwash. I am the one as director who comes up with the concept, the vision if you will, the entire and complete understanding of the script, the author's intention, and my own viewpoints on what I'd like to see - taking into account what an audience might like to see and what actors might like to sink their teeth into. I'm the one who hears in my head how I think a line should be delivered and when I don't hear it (bear in mind it's an experience issue as well) but when I don't hear it the way I want to hear it or think it should be delivered IN CONTEXT, in good taste taking into account the action, the dialogue, the style, the author's intent (in MY opinion) - then it's UP TO ME AS DIRECTOR to get the actor to say it like I think it should be said.

NOW THEN here's where my contention takes over. I'm told that as a director (again academia talking) that I should use analogies, metaphors, imagry, concepts, ideas and so forth and allow the ACTOR to figure out what the hell I'm talking about until I can get him or her to deliver the line like I expect to hear it. WHAT A FREAKIN' GIGANTIC WASTE OF TIME!! I simply do NOT have that much time to waste when I'm directing a show. Partly that's because I usually wind up wearing more than one hat and time is always a commodity that cannot be wasted. Therefore, I WARN all my casts that I DO give line readings. That is based, I tell them, on the fact that it is simply easier to demonstrate by giving the line reading how I want them to deliver it - and I AM open to discussion and ideas about it - but how I want them to deliver a line rather than waste time trying to make them understand through some other voodoo means - what I'm trying to get them to do. Sorry - but I simply am too direct and too busy to waste time trying to find the analogy or metaphor that will allow THEM to "discover" how the line should be delivered to satisfy MY concept. I warn them I do it - IF NECESSARY. And surprisingly I really never have to do THAT much to get the lines delivered as I see it. I emphasize that it's not that I don't trust their judgement or their abilities - it's just how I see it and frankly when my name is on the top - I want it like I want it. And I don't waste my or their time leading them by the hand using less direct methods to deliver a line(s) like I want to hear them. And again it comes from experience of acting, directing and being IN THEIR SHOES. I detest ambiguity. Partly that's why my responses and posts are so long-winded. I hate leaving anything out. And I know more rhetoric often causes ambiguity (why I don't know) I still maintain that I say it all so there is nothing left out. AND when I direct - yes, I give line readings and see absolutely NO problem with it - and no actor that I know of has ever questioned my doing that. They might sometimes disagree but I've always been open with my casts in that, I allow them the freedom to disagree - at which point we discuss it and share the reasons why I want things said a certain way. Sometimes I concede. But I do tell them in the end, it's MY choice and more often than not, it's worked quite well.

I just get a little sick and tired of so much garbage being taught in academia that is so unlike and so unnecessary or ridiculous in the real world of doing theater. NOT that I'm opposed to learning, being taught. It's just the content that gets or worse, doesn't get taught in schools.

Simply - line readings save time, gets it said and expressed without wasting time trying to get someone to deliver a line a certain way by some less direct means and finally gets it done after which we can move ahead to less involved things. I see no problem at all. Don't ALWAYS believe everything someone tells you, or tries to teach you when you hear that "it's always been done that way"......including what I'M TELLING YOU. Don't believe me - just develop your own methods and experience and time will teach you more than anything.

And MartyW - NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF giving line readings - I mean WHY WASTE YOURS AND EVERYONE ELSE'S TIME going the voodoo route so the actor can feel he or she created this role from their own vast storehouse of knowledge and experience.............when often they have NEITHER!!! Experienced actors don't require it as much but they too have "ideas" that don't gel with YOUR concept as a director. The mark of a good actor is to deliver what the director wants without question.....IF you have a director that knows what they're doing. I say you CAN question anything and hopefully you can come to an agreement favorably in the best interests of the show. There have been some directors I've worked with who were tyrannical. NO changes, alterations, actor involvement. NOT my style believe me. I can learn too - and have which is why I do things the way I do them now. Experience and mistakes have been there - I learn from it all. Bear in mind a good director will NOT make his actors look bad. And in the end - whose name is at the top? The DIRECTOR's!! He has to take the hits too - sometimes at the expense of the actors but if something is stupid - at least the actors can say - "that's what the director told me to do"!! If something stupid gets done, the director has nobody to blame but him/her self!!

BACK IN THE CAVE TONY!!

TonyDi

Edited by TonyDi - 1/13/11 at 7:51am

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MartyW
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Posted: 1/13/11 at 8:05am

Tony

Marty W

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pdavis69
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Posted: 1/13/11 at 9:15am

Bravo Tony!

As the Dirctor everything on that stage reflects on me; the acting, the set, the dressing, the lighting. This is my vision and if someone is not delivering the line in the way my "vision" wants, then it is my job to help them get there. If this means I have to say "because I'm the mommy and I say so" then so be it.

But then I have also been accused of being a caveman as well.

Patrick L. Davis
Fort Findlay Playhouse

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edh915
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Posted: 1/13/11 at 12:03pm

I understand what TonyDi is saying, but I'll only resort to giving line readings to my actors as a last resort. (Unless we're talking about misunderstanding some idiom or generational mode of speech - then it's just a lack of experience on the part of the actor and I'll step in to explain it.)

I don't like being a little too quick to give a line reading, however, because I worry about stifling my actors - making them afraid to try anything on their own. I'd rather have them "discover" the right reading - or, at least, an appropriate one. So often, there is more than one way to say just about anything.

As for who gets the glory: We all know that if the play's a success the actors get the credit. If the show fails, it's the director's fault. No big deal.

I love to direct - but you gotta deal with those damn actors. The greatest challenge lies in bending your vision to accommodate your actors' abilities. Yes, we challenge the actors, and they do their level best to deliver; but inevitably something you want will be outside of their ability to deliver. Sometimes it's a minor point, sometimes not. At that point you work with their strengths to get the best you can from them - even if it means altering some aspect of the play's impact. It's more important for me to present a comprehensive whole to the audience, rather than have one actor displayed as being obviously out of his depth. Your primary function as a director is to protect the show.

I love to act - but you gotta deal with those damn directors. The greatest challenge can be dealing with a director who is less than well-versed in the intricacies of directing a play. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some know-it-all who claims to know more than anyone else. If I have difficulty with a director I keep it to myself, and I don't cop any kind of attitude about it either. Something like that doesn't help the show in any way, shape, or form. When I do a show, I put myself into the director's hands and give him all I can give. The directors I respect are the ones who allow input from their actors. Most do. Some don't.

I try to be the kind of director I like to work for and, so far, it seems to be working all right for me. I'm very proud of the fact that a pleasantly large percentage of my actors get nominated for local acting awards. I'm extraordinarily pleased when one of my actors "surprises" his compatriots; when they say, "I never knew you could do something like that!" Those moments (along with watching an audience leaving the theatre chattering away about the play they've just seen) are what I live for. Absolutely priceless. All I need is the accomplishment; I have no need at all of the "recognition."

Edited by edh915 - 1/13/11 at 12:17pm

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Topic: Why is it wrong to give a line reading?
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peacock Star Joined: 3/03/09 Location: Bangladesh Online Status: Offline Posts: 58	Topic: Why is it wrong to give a line reading? Posted: 1/12/11 at 2:17am
	I am an amateur director, never had any official acting classes. I have picked up from my readings that directors should never, ever give a line reading to an actor. My question is why? I work at an international school, and some of my students do not have the most fluent English. They would never get some lines right if someone doesn't help them.

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jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 1/12/11 at 7:18am
	I'd say just forget about any concern with giving line readings if you're directing non-native English speakers.
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Tallsor Star Joined: 2/24/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 63	Posted: 1/12/11 at 12:17pm
	Peacock, The 'don't give a line reading' is primarily because line reading denotes character. You want the actor to come up with his/her own approach to the part, and having a line interpreted one way versus another delves into that. There have been times when I've given a line read when I know I want the character to go in a certain direction and other approaches (i.e., talks with the actor as to what result I'm hoping for) fail.
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Majicwrench Celebrity Joined: 2/07/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 178	Posted: 1/12/11 at 12:25pm
	Peacock, NO set rules as far as I am concerned. THis is theatre, not math. I give line reading to actors at times and see nothing wrong with it. Your fellow amateur, Keith
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edh915 Celebrity Joined: 11/19/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 1/12/11 at 12:49pm
	jayzehr is right. If it's a matter of a lack of familiarity with the language, then by all means let the actor know where the normal word emphasis lies. Under ordinary circumstances it's not really advisable to give an actor a specific line reading - emphasizing a particular word, for example - because it's almost certainly not going to come out right; sounding smooth and natural. If the actor doesn't "feel" it, no amount of coaching is going to get through to him/her. You're better off to make sure that the actor understands the motivation behind the speech, then even though it's not the way you would say it, the feeling behind it will be in line with the characterization that you want. Am I making any sense here?
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MartyW Celebrity Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 555	Posted: 1/12/11 at 1:44pm
	It is a very fine line.... In your case, as previously stated, your actor's may not be familiar enough with the language to get where they need to be. Often, we face this problem with older, less used words in English with English speakers, or when asked to pronounce an English word with a specific dialect in mind. That's probably your problem. As for the "rule" it is as also previously stated, to allow the actor to make his own choices. The problem I sometimes have with that is that, dependent on the actor's skill sets (face it, most all of us are amateur) he may not be able to find that emotion without example. OR I am not able to get what I need from them by explaining, all I'm left with is example. Unfortunately, to often when I try to "leave it with the actor" I don't get the feel I need for my vision. So yes, I do, from time to time, give line reads. Just like, after several other attempts, I will get on stage and show the movement I want or show a piece of business that is just not going right. My bottom line, at least at this point, is that I acknowledge the "rule" and realize that it comes from the professional theater. I try to follow it, but I am tired of not getting what I want and will often still give line reads .... I know, I should be ashamed...
	Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.."
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TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 1/13/11 at 7:35am
	Here I go again - get ready.....!!! LINE READINGS - oh boy, what a can of worms. Here again I think this harks back to academia more than it does in professional theater - they tell you that you MUST create the character and that no-one should give you much beyond direction of where to stand on stage and other more innocuous things - but NEVER line readings given to your cast/actors by the director. Heaven forbid! In more professional situations, there simply is less NEED to do that but still does and should remain as a means to demonstrate in the interest of time and expediency, what you as director want from the actor without the need for B.S. ideas to get them to "find it" themselves. SORRY that's hogwash. I am the one as director who comes up with the concept, the vision if you will, the entire and complete understanding of the script, the author's intention, and my own viewpoints on what I'd like to see - taking into account what an audience might like to see and what actors might like to sink their teeth into. I'm the one who hears in my head how I think a line should be delivered and when I don't hear it (bear in mind it's an experience issue as well) but when I don't hear it the way I want to hear it or think it should be delivered IN CONTEXT, in good taste taking into account the action, the dialogue, the style, the author's intent (in MY opinion) - then it's UP TO ME AS DIRECTOR to get the actor to say it like I think it should be said. NOW THEN here's where my contention takes over. I'm told that as a director (again academia talking) that I should use analogies, metaphors, imagry, concepts, ideas and so forth and allow the ACTOR to figure out what the hell I'm talking about until I can get him or her to deliver the line like I expect to hear it. WHAT A FREAKIN' GIGANTIC WASTE OF TIME!! I simply do NOT have that much time to waste when I'm directing a show. Partly that's because I usually wind up wearing more than one hat and time is always a commodity that cannot be wasted. Therefore, I WARN all my casts that I DO give line readings. That is based, I tell them, on the fact that it is simply easier to demonstrate by giving the line reading how I want them to deliver it - and I AM open to discussion and ideas about it - but how I want them to deliver a line rather than waste time trying to make them understand through some other voodoo means - what I'm trying to get them to do. Sorry - but I simply am too direct and too busy to waste time trying to find the analogy or metaphor that will allow THEM to "discover" how the line should be delivered to satisfy MY concept. I warn them I do it - IF NECESSARY. And surprisingly I really never have to do THAT much to get the lines delivered as I see it. I emphasize that it's not that I don't trust their judgement or their abilities - it's just how I see it and frankly when my name is on the top - I want it like I want it. And I don't waste my or their time leading them by the hand using less direct methods to deliver a line(s) like I want to hear them. And again it comes from experience of acting, directing and being IN THEIR SHOES. I detest ambiguity. Partly that's why my responses and posts are so long-winded. I hate leaving anything out. And I know more rhetoric often causes ambiguity (why I don't know) I still maintain that I say it all so there is nothing left out. AND when I direct - yes, I give line readings and see absolutely NO problem with it - and no actor that I know of has ever questioned my doing that. They might sometimes disagree but I've always been open with my casts in that, I allow them the freedom to disagree - at which point we discuss it and share the reasons why I want things said a certain way. Sometimes I concede. But I do tell them in the end, it's MY choice and more often than not, it's worked quite well. I just get a little sick and tired of so much garbage being taught in academia that is so unlike and so unnecessary or ridiculous in the real world of doing theater. NOT that I'm opposed to learning, being taught. It's just the content that gets or worse, doesn't get taught in schools. Simply - line readings save time, gets it said and expressed without wasting time trying to get someone to deliver a line a certain way by some less direct means and finally gets it done after which we can move ahead to less involved things. I see no problem at all. Don't ALWAYS believe everything someone tells you, or tries to teach you when you hear that "it's always been done that way"......including what I'M TELLING YOU. Don't believe me - just develop your own methods and experience and time will teach you more than anything. And MartyW - NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF giving line readings - I mean WHY WASTE YOURS AND EVERYONE ELSE'S TIME going the voodoo route so the actor can feel he or she created this role from their own vast storehouse of knowledge and experience.............when often they have NEITHER!!! Experienced actors don't require it as much but they too have "ideas" that don't gel with YOUR concept as a director. The mark of a good actor is to deliver what the director wants without question.....IF you have a director that knows what they're doing. I say you CAN question anything and hopefully you can come to an agreement favorably in the best interests of the show. There have been some directors I've worked with who were tyrannical. NO changes, alterations, actor involvement. NOT my style believe me. I can learn too - and have which is why I do things the way I do them now. Experience and mistakes have been there - I learn from it all. Bear in mind a good director will NOT make his actors look bad. And in the end - whose name is at the top? The DIRECTOR's!! He has to take the hits too - sometimes at the expense of the actors but if something is stupid - at least the actors can say - "that's what the director told me to do"!! If something stupid gets done, the director has nobody to blame but him/her self!! BACK IN THE CAVE TONY!! TonyDi Edited by TonyDi - 1/13/11 at 7:51am
	"Almost famous"
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MartyW Celebrity Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 555	Posted: 1/13/11 at 8:05am
	Tony
	Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.."
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pdavis69 Celebrity Joined: 3/26/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 437	Posted: 1/13/11 at 9:15am
	Bravo Tony! As the Dirctor everything on that stage reflects on me; the acting, the set, the dressing, the lighting. This is my vision and if someone is not delivering the line in the way my "vision" wants, then it is my job to help them get there. If this means I have to say "because I'm the mommy and I say so" then so be it. But then I have also been accused of being a caveman as well.
	Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse
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edh915 Celebrity Joined: 11/19/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 1/13/11 at 12:03pm
	I understand what TonyDi is saying, but I'll only resort to giving line readings to my actors as a last resort. (Unless we're talking about misunderstanding some idiom or generational mode of speech - then it's just a lack of experience on the part of the actor and I'll step in to explain it.) I don't like being a little too quick to give a line reading, however, because I worry about stifling my actors - making them afraid to try anything on their own. I'd rather have them "discover" the right reading - or, at least, an appropriate one. So often, there is more than one way to say just about anything. As for who gets the glory: We all know that if the play's a success the actors get the credit. If the show fails, it's the director's fault. No big deal. I love to direct - but you gotta deal with those damn actors. The greatest challenge lies in bending your vision to accommodate your actors' abilities. Yes, we challenge the actors, and they do their level best to deliver; but inevitably something you want will be outside of their ability to deliver. Sometimes it's a minor point, sometimes not. At that point you work with their strengths to get the best you can from them - even if it means altering some aspect of the play's impact. It's more important for me to present a comprehensive whole to the audience, rather than have one actor displayed as being obviously out of his depth. Your primary function as a director is to protect the show. I love to act - but you gotta deal with those damn directors. The greatest challenge can be dealing with a director who is less than well-versed in the intricacies of directing a play. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some know-it-all who claims to know more than anyone else. If I have difficulty with a director I keep it to myself, and I don't cop any kind of attitude about it either. Something like that doesn't help the show in any way, shape, or form. When I do a show, I put myself into the director's hands and give him all I can give. The directors I respect are the ones who allow input from their actors. Most do. Some don't. I try to be the kind of director I like to work for and, so far, it seems to be working all right for me. I'm very proud of the fact that a pleasantly large percentage of my actors get nominated for local acting awards. I'm extraordinarily pleased when one of my actors "surprises" his compatriots; when they say, "I never knew you could do something like that!" Those moments (along with watching an audience leaving the theatre chattering away about the play they've just seen) are what I live for. Absolutely priceless. All I need is the accomplishment; I have no need at all of the "recognition." Edited by edh915 - 1/13/11 at 12:17pm
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