Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: suggestions for flying big facade

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george
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Topic: suggestions for flying big facade
Posted: 5/05/09 at 3:04pm

Hi,

I'm making a big (24'x16') gothic cathedral front that I want to fly. Want to make it as light as possible and a s simple to construct (needs to travel).

My thoughts are 8 - 4x8 flats framed with 1x3 and covered with luan and then glue on foam blocks and archways, etc. To assemble in the back I rather avoid using 20' 1x4's to connect. And any suggestions the best way to connect horizontally? I am looking for something strong enough to not snap while being flown (espeacially from the lying down assembly possition, and easy enough to assemble that i can get to everything without having to walk on the back of flats and possibly damage something.

Thanks.

George

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Spectrum
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Joined: 4/16/04
Location: United States
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Posts: 176

Posted: 5/06/09 at 4:21am

Without knowing the exact layout and design of your facade, one method of connecting large assemblies for flying that has worked well for me is using one inch conduit, tied to the back of a facade with the clamps designed to attach conduit to a wall. The conduit is 10 feet long, semi-rigid, easily coupled for longer lengths, and easily attached to cabling for flying. Care must be given to make sure the weight of the facade is evenly distributed and supported by the cabling. If the conduit has to span an open space, it can maybe be painted flat black to minimize the presence (as is "the first rule of community theatre"). ...Just a suggestion. Good luck with whatever you do.

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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MartyW
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Posted: 5/06/09 at 10:20am

Thick foam board and minimal framing.. 2x2 or the like..skip the luan all together... create your breaks in movable sections then screw, bolt or clamp it all together.. I have flown such...

Marty W

"Till next we trod the boards.."

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drbethquinn
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Posted: 6/04/09 at 12:00pm

What about eye hooks with cables like the safety cables used for lighting instrumants

Have a healthy day!
Beth
www.mynsp.com/bethspage

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David McCall
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Posted: 6/04/09 at 4:52pm

Wire rope like the material used for safetys is fine, but I certainly wouldn't trust simple eye bolts or screwed into the top. For one thing you usually want to have the lines attached all of the way down at the bottom of the structure.

There is a "J" shaped piece of flat iron available that hooks under bottom of the flats and you attach your wire rope to that. Then there are plates with rings that are used to guide the wire at the top and sometimes between the top and bottom. A cheap way to go is to drill a hole and loop the wire through it at the top and bottom.

When you lay it out, think about what would happen if any one or 2 wires fail and make pretty sure the answer is nothing :-).

Remember to use 3 wire clips at every connection. Or swag it.

Best to find someone that knows a bit about rigging and have them do it.

David M

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
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Posts: 1181

Posted: 6/04/09 at 11:53pm

As David suggests with Flying set pieces, it is a compression lift, from the bottom of the set piece. Usinging 'Hanging Irons' & hardware.

[PDF] SCENERY FITTINGS

Here in WA (Ockerland) we need to be endorsed in stage rigging &/or a qualified Rigger - 'Worksafe'

You can do the old trick of running the Dropper cable thru a hole in the top rail of a flat or use a Grummet, as displayed in the suggested site.

I have witnessed dramas of hanging scenery from the top, it gets rather messy & cleaning up body parts & blood, is a headache & a lot of paper work later!

Find a a good Flying Mechanist/rigger/Techie to be on the safe side.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
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Posts: 1181

Posted: 6/08/09 at 8:11pm

George as your plan is to tour the set. A good clue, is to get the Fly & Stage Specs from each of the venues. Before you build the set piece, as you will come across some weird & wonderious Fly set ups on the road.

Design the Facade so that end pieces can be dropped off to suit the venue logigistic & still retain the main centre Arch peice.

{ REMEMBER THE STAGE CONVENTION OF 'BLOFLI'

(BACK lINE OUT - fRONT lINE IN)}

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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vickifrank
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Joined: 9/21/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 332

Posted: 7/06/09 at 11:28am

If this same thing were made out of printed Chameleon scrim, it would weigh less than 6 pounds, and all your troubles (OK, most) go away.

_____________

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com
1-800-359-2964

The theater scrim people

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mvp1114
Walk-On
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Joined: 1/26/08
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4

Posted: 7/15/09 at 9:35pm

Lauan is just too heavy for something that big. I'd suggest using cloth flats, still gluing on the foam blocks.

Mike

schlechy techy

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
george Walk-On Joined: 4/16/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: suggestions for flying big facade Posted: 5/05/09 at 3:04pm
	Hi, I'm making a big (24'x16') gothic cathedral front that I want to fly. Want to make it as light as possible and a s simple to construct (needs to travel). My thoughts are 8 - 4x8 flats framed with 1x3 and covered with luan and then glue on foam blocks and archways, etc. To assemble in the back I rather avoid using 20' 1x4's to connect. And any suggestions the best way to connect horizontally? I am looking for something strong enough to not snap while being flown (espeacially from the lying down assembly possition, and easy enough to assemble that i can get to everything without having to walk on the back of flats and possibly damage something. Thanks. George

	IP Logged

Spectrum Celebrity Joined: 4/16/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 5/06/09 at 4:21am
	Without knowing the exact layout and design of your facade, one method of connecting large assemblies for flying that has worked well for me is using one inch conduit, tied to the back of a facade with the clamps designed to attach conduit to a wall. The conduit is 10 feet long, semi-rigid, easily coupled for longer lengths, and easily attached to cabling for flying. Care must be given to make sure the weight of the facade is evenly distributed and supported by the cabling. If the conduit has to span an open space, it can maybe be painted flat black to minimize the presence (as is "the first rule of community theatre"). ...Just a suggestion. Good luck with whatever you do.
	Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
	IP Logged

MartyW Celebrity Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 555	Posted: 5/06/09 at 10:20am
	Thick foam board and minimal framing.. 2x2 or the like..skip the luan all together... create your breaks in movable sections then screw, bolt or clamp it all together.. I have flown such...
	Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.."
	IP Logged

drbethquinn Walk-On Joined: 6/04/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 6/04/09 at 12:00pm
	What about eye hooks with cables like the safety cables used for lighting instrumants
	Have a healthy day! Beth www.mynsp.com/bethspage
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 6/04/09 at 4:52pm
	Wire rope like the material used for safetys is fine, but I certainly wouldn't trust simple eye bolts or screwed into the top. For one thing you usually want to have the lines attached all of the way down at the bottom of the structure. There is a "J" shaped piece of flat iron available that hooks under bottom of the flats and you attach your wire rope to that. Then there are plates with rings that are used to guide the wire at the top and sometimes between the top and bottom. A cheap way to go is to drill a hole and loop the wire through it at the top and bottom. When you lay it out, think about what would happen if any one or 2 wires fail and make pretty sure the answer is nothing :-). Remember to use 3 wire clips at every connection. Or swag it. Best to find someone that knows a bit about rigging and have them do it.
	David M
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 6/04/09 at 11:53pm
	As David suggests with Flying set pieces, it is a compression lift, from the bottom of the set piece. Usinging 'Hanging Irons' & hardware. [PDF] SCENERY FITTINGS Here in WA (Ockerland) we need to be endorsed in stage rigging &/or a qualified Rigger - 'Worksafe' You can do the old trick of running the Dropper cable thru a hole in the top rail of a flat or use a Grummet, as displayed in the suggested site. I have witnessed dramas of hanging scenery from the top, it gets rather messy & cleaning up body parts & blood, is a headache & a lot of paper work later! Find a a good Flying Mechanist/rigger/Techie to be on the safe side.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 6/08/09 at 8:11pm
	George as your plan is to tour the set. A good clue, is to get the Fly & Stage Specs from each of the venues. Before you build the set piece, as you will come across some weird & wonderious Fly set ups on the road. Design the Facade so that end pieces can be dropped off to suit the venue logigistic & still retain the main centre Arch peice. { REMEMBER THE STAGE CONVENTION OF 'BLOFLI' (BACK lINE OUT - fRONT lINE IN)}
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

vickifrank Celebrity Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332	Posted: 7/06/09 at 11:28am
	If this same thing were made out of printed Chameleon scrim, it would weigh less than 6 pounds, and all your troubles (OK, most) go away.
	_____________ http://www.studio-productions-inc.com 1-800-359-2964 The theater scrim people
	IP Logged

mvp1114 Walk-On Joined: 1/26/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4	Posted: 7/15/09 at 9:35pm
	Lauan is just too heavy for something that big. I'd suggest using cloth flats, still gluing on the foam blocks. Mike
	schlechy techy
	IP Logged

Topic: suggestions for flying big facade( Topic Closed)