Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: using foam core as flats

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jessbashline
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Topic: using foam core as flats
Posted: 6/25/09 at 1:21pm

Has anyone used foam core instead of traditional flats?
What kind of base do you use on them?
Due to budgetary concerns this year I have had to make due without a set designer (AAGGGHHH) and I want to do as little as possible- since construction is not the forte of any of my staff members.

Any help is appreciated- need 3x6 flats that will stand in place
thanks

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Spectrum
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Posted: 6/26/09 at 3:45am

My opinion (and experience) is don't waste your money and time with foam core. Even though it seems to be a 'teacher favorite' it's about as expensive as anything else and it curls and warps and does not last. Even with a framework (short of 2 by 4s, or steel and concrete!), it won't stay flat beyong your first show, if that.

That said, if you really want to use foam core, simple wooden, metal, or plastic "L" brackets behind them (firmly attached to a framework) will hold them up as they are very light. (I'm sure you've seen this type of bracket used to stand up 'cartoon shrubbery' and cardboard trees.) Make sure the supports are large enough and/or heavy enough to resist against the high center of gravity of a 3 by 6 foot flat. (One good gust of air by someone briskly passing by, and OOOOPS!) There are many additional methods of standing up a foam core flat, but simple and cheap is more than good enough. Good luck.

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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thrillwill
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Posted: 6/26/09 at 7:50am

I don't know the science but my gut tells me that foam core + paint + lights is not going to look very good. Plus what's the chance that foam core can take multiple coats of paint before really warping up?

Can you give us some info about your theatre (school, community semi-pro?) and maybe we can give you some tips about that missing set designer. For instance with schools there's almost always a dad a out there with a killer set of tools who'd be more than willing to help.

Will Leamon
http://www.classiccityarts.com

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belle
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Posted: 6/26/09 at 10:39am

The trick is figuring out how to fasten the foam core to the wood. We've used large metal washers. You put a dry wall screw through the washer, then then foam core, and then into a 1 x 4. The L brackets can hold the 1 x 4s together. Don't drive the screw in too deeply as they will push into the foam core and look bad. The paint will cover the metal washers and they can be reused forever.

Using luan is probably better as others have suggested, but we've used foam core a lot. If you get the white kind (not pink or blue) it takes paint well. The seams can easily be covered with muslin strips dipped in watered-down white glue. (They kind of dutchman you use on regular flats.) Warping is a big problem as the 1x4s can hold them straight.

One big problems is that the corners break off easily as it has no tensile strength. You have to carry it carefully or it will break. Wind will ruin it quickly if you have to take it outside. You can put things back together with the muslin/glue.

Some have said there is a problem with these being flammable and releasing poisonous gas if burned. You might want to check on that (to say the least).

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dicapria
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Posted: 8/26/09 at 6:10am

I agree with the above.

But if you have to do it. You might be able to get free foam core at any architecture studio or even lawyers office.

Dicapria
http://www.dicapria.com

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Scott B
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Posted: 8/26/09 at 10:15am

I'm the last person that should offer advice regarding sets, but just finishing up directing a show, I can tell you that a foam flat of any kind will not be able to handle being dinged up. The slightest hit from anything will leave a dent. When the light hits it ... you can see it.

We had to use two of them and they just weren't that great to work with. That said ... I might be having a small show coming up in November. With a bad back and close to zero members with set experience, that foam sounds really good right now.

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David McCall
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Posted: 8/26/09 at 12:20pm

I agree with most of what you said, except that you mixed up a term. Foam-core is a product that sandwiches a thin sheet of foam between 2 layers of heavy paper. The pink, blue, and white stuff you are talking about is different. As an aside; Foam-core will warp if you paint just one side, so you have to do both sides at once.

I would not use foam for flats. It is useful for building-up detail though. It is much more durable and less flammable if you coat it with Rosco Foam Coat or equivalent.

David M

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Gaafa
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Posted: 8/26/09 at 8:25pm

I would not have foam on my mind, msinly from a H&S fire piont of view, even the supposidly fire retardant 'Blue' foam board, besides all the reasons previously posted above & else where on this site. Do you have any of the previously used flats?

This may help

Set Design and Construction: Building Materials--Cardboard, Luaun ...

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Nanette
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Posted: 8/27/09 at 11:05am

I've used foamcore in the past. They were cheap, but looked it too!

We managed to make our stand up by using two pieces, standing on end, with six shims nailed between the two pieces (three on each side: top, middle, bottom) so it sandwiched a pocket of air of about 12" between the two pieces. This worked well if we had a scene change as we could easily turn them around (they're very lightweight).

As suggested above, I DON'T suggest using foamcore.

In a world of margarine, be butter!

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georgiadirector
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Joined: 8/22/09
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Posted: 9/05/09 at 3:23am

We've used foam (blue and pink) for years. As long as you take the thin plastic shield off before you paint it it will take house paint and acrylics really well. Breaking is a problem. Dings in storage are a huge problem. Masking tape will cover a lot of ills though. We use foam for weight. And our theater is an amphitheater and we've never had a problem with the foam blowing off the frames. We attach the foam with about 6-9 screws. Sometimes we use washers and sometimes we don't. Luan is the same price, but it's heavier and our consideration is weight.

"I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for the last 40 years!" Ouiser, Steel Magnolias

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Topic: using foam core as flats( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
jessbashline Walk-On Joined: 6/25/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: using foam core as flats Posted: 6/25/09 at 1:21pm
	Has anyone used foam core instead of traditional flats? What kind of base do you use on them? Due to budgetary concerns this year I have had to make due without a set designer (AAGGGHHH) and I want to do as little as possible- since construction is not the forte of any of my staff members. Any help is appreciated- need 3x6 flats that will stand in place thanks

	IP Logged

Spectrum Celebrity Joined: 4/16/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 6/26/09 at 3:45am
	My opinion (and experience) is don't waste your money and time with foam core. Even though it seems to be a 'teacher favorite' it's about as expensive as anything else and it curls and warps and does not last. Even with a framework (short of 2 by 4s, or steel and concrete!), it won't stay flat beyong your first show, if that. That said, if you really want to use foam core, simple wooden, metal, or plastic "L" brackets behind them (firmly attached to a framework) will hold them up as they are very light. (I'm sure you've seen this type of bracket used to stand up 'cartoon shrubbery' and cardboard trees.) Make sure the supports are large enough and/or heavy enough to resist against the high center of gravity of a 3 by 6 foot flat. (One good gust of air by someone briskly passing by, and OOOOPS!) There are many additional methods of standing up a foam core flat, but simple and cheap is more than good enough. Good luck.
	Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
	IP Logged

thrillwill Player Joined: 10/21/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 20	Posted: 6/26/09 at 7:50am
	I don't know the science but my gut tells me that foam core + paint + lights is not going to look very good. Plus what's the chance that foam core can take multiple coats of paint before really warping up? Can you give us some info about your theatre (school, community semi-pro?) and maybe we can give you some tips about that missing set designer. For instance with schools there's almost always a dad a out there with a killer set of tools who'd be more than willing to help.
	Will Leamon http://www.classiccityarts.com
	IP Logged

belle Star Joined: 9/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 75	Posted: 6/26/09 at 10:39am
	The trick is figuring out how to fasten the foam core to the wood. We've used large metal washers. You put a dry wall screw through the washer, then then foam core, and then into a 1 x 4. The L brackets can hold the 1 x 4s together. Don't drive the screw in too deeply as they will push into the foam core and look bad. The paint will cover the metal washers and they can be reused forever. Using luan is probably better as others have suggested, but we've used foam core a lot. If you get the white kind (not pink or blue) it takes paint well. The seams can easily be covered with muslin strips dipped in watered-down white glue. (They kind of dutchman you use on regular flats.) Warping is a big problem as the 1x4s can hold them straight. One big problems is that the corners break off easily as it has no tensile strength. You have to carry it carefully or it will break. Wind will ruin it quickly if you have to take it outside. You can put things back together with the muslin/glue. Some have said there is a problem with these being flammable and releasing poisonous gas if burned. You might want to check on that (to say the least).
	IP Logged

dicapria Walk-On Joined: 8/26/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 8/26/09 at 6:10am
	I agree with the above. But if you have to do it. You might be able to get free foam core at any architecture studio or even lawyers office.
	Dicapria http://www.dicapria.com
	IP Logged

Scott B Celebrity Joined: 12/08/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 239	Posted: 8/26/09 at 10:15am
	I'm the last person that should offer advice regarding sets, but just finishing up directing a show, I can tell you that a foam flat of any kind will not be able to handle being dinged up. The slightest hit from anything will leave a dent. When the light hits it ... you can see it. We had to use two of them and they just weren't that great to work with. That said ... I might be having a small show coming up in November. With a bad back and close to zero members with set experience, that foam sounds really good right now.
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 8/26/09 at 12:20pm
	I agree with most of what you said, except that you mixed up a term. Foam-core is a product that sandwiches a thin sheet of foam between 2 layers of heavy paper. The pink, blue, and white stuff you are talking about is different. As an aside; Foam-core will warp if you paint just one side, so you have to do both sides at once. I would not use foam for flats. It is useful for building-up detail though. It is much more durable and less flammable if you coat it with Rosco Foam Coat or equivalent.
	David M
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 8/26/09 at 8:25pm
	I would not have foam on my mind, msinly from a H&S fire piont of view, even the supposidly fire retardant 'Blue' foam board, besides all the reasons previously posted above & else where on this site. Do you have any of the previously used flats? This may help Set Design and Construction: Building Materials--Cardboard, Luaun ...
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Nanette Celebrity Joined: 8/01/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399	Posted: 8/27/09 at 11:05am
	I've used foamcore in the past. They were cheap, but looked it too! We managed to make our stand up by using two pieces, standing on end, with six shims nailed between the two pieces (three on each side: top, middle, bottom) so it sandwiched a pocket of air of about 12" between the two pieces. This worked well if we had a scene change as we could easily turn them around (they're very lightweight). As suggested above, I DON'T suggest using foamcore.
	In a world of margarine, be butter!
	IP Logged

georgiadirector Walk-On Joined: 8/22/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7	Posted: 9/05/09 at 3:23am
	We've used foam (blue and pink) for years. As long as you take the thin plastic shield off before you paint it it will take house paint and acrylics really well. Breaking is a problem. Dings in storage are a huge problem. Masking tape will cover a lot of ills though. We use foam for weight. And our theater is an amphitheater and we've never had a problem with the foam blowing off the frames. We attach the foam with about 6-9 screws. Sometimes we use washers and sometimes we don't. Luan is the same price, but it's heavier and our consideration is weight.
	"I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for the last 40 years!" Ouiser, Steel Magnolias
	IP Logged