Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Titanic... SOS

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jungle16jim
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Topic: Titanic... SOS
Posted: 7/17/08 at 4:43pm

I fought like crazy to not do Titanic, but got overruled. Now, I've got to design the set. Our entire onstage budget is $1500 and the costumes alone are quite difficult and pricey.

The director does not want to tilt the platform, but in my mind, the set is the title character and if the boat does not sink, the audience will feel jipped. I've got that non-tilting option to fall back on, but am determined to do something. Another option if worse comes to worse--have a false facade on the front of the platform and tilt that. I couldn't have actors up there, but at least it's something--if worst comes to worst.

Parameters: The stage is 28ft wide, we cannot screw into it or attach to any wall, and the stage door is a 6ft double door. The fly space is unusable for anything with much weight.

Thoughts: build a 16x8 platform in the space (it wouldn't fit through the door otherwise. Use 4 2x12x16s to support it with some 2x4 bracing thrown in too. Rest one end on a VERY solid platform about 3ft off the ground on one end and rest the other side on a hydraulic lift.

Problems: How to attach the lift to the platform in a way that will still be safe as the angle changes. (My first thought was a small forklift but then I had weight/noise issues). I have no idea what to ask for or how much weight I'm talking about for the lift. I've suggested casting only very small actors, but that's fallen on deaf ears.

Help! I've got until the winter to solve these issues, but am trying to think ahead. I've got Oliver! and Sound of Music before that. How do I do this to myself?

Jim

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TimW
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Posted: 7/17/08 at 10:11pm

How about having the bow or stern attached to your fly and lifting from there. Have the ship collapse for the sinking, thinking 2 foot panels that slide behind each other. Then lower to the stage floor.

Don't know if this helps any, but here it is.

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pdavis69
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Posted: 7/18/08 at 8:53am

Big suggestion! Let someone else do the set this time.

Patrick L. Davis
Fort Findlay Playhouse

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Posted: 7/18/08 at 11:55am

Have the entire audience tilt their heads to one side simultaneously?

Sorry ... I got nuthin'.

"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone

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jcf0mtr
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Posted: 7/21/08 at 12:55pm

Here's a thought... Build you deck on a platform that is supported in NEAR the middle on a triangular frame. Think of a see-saw. Make sure one end (the longer of the two), is significantly heaver than the end that goes up so the see-saw will not go down when the cast is on the high end of the deck. On the heavy end,attach a second triangular frame that looks like a saw horse, with one point to the triangle attached to the platform so it can pivot, the second point of the triangle - attach heavy duty castors that can roll backword under the platform, and a third point will have a long timber attached to is behind the set. As you lift the timber, the castors will roll under the set until the third point of the triangle touches ground. It will not have to be attached to the floor.

Joe
Pembroke Pines Theatre of the Performing Arts

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vickifrank
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Posted: 7/21/08 at 1:53pm

I had a customer who was an engineer who had just done Titanic with a ship that sinks (deck tilted to nearly 90 degrees) by getting two truck sized air bags from a junk yard. He then rigged a pneumatic system down the hall and behind closed doors --to hide the sound of the air compressors-- that during the show he used to slowly inflated the air bags.

He claimed total success, but of course someone trying to duplicate his effort would need to carefully evaluate their own design for safety.

_____________

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com
1-800-359-2964

The theater scrim people

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MartyW
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Posted: 7/21/08 at 4:49pm

Now thats cool

Marty W

"Till next we trod the boards.."

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Sweeney
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Posted: 7/22/08 at 10:08am

I know that Bay City Players did Titanic this year in Michigan.

989-893-5555

The best part honestly was the tilting of the ship they had created. Didn't care to much for the music honestly or the so-so acting, but the sinking was fantastic.

Couldn't hurt to call them, and get a hold of their set designer and get some thoughts from someone who just did the show. Good Luck.

Sweeney

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vickifrank
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Posted: 7/22/08 at 2:38pm

I do have two low tech ideas.

Take your simple 8' x 16' platform and tilt it over a roller that is a fulcrum. I'd prefer to hinge the downstage part of the platform to the stage. Then tilting the platform requires two steps (and four stage hands). The first two stage hands move the roller downstage a predetermined amount. The upstage hands use leverage to lift and prop the upstage part of the platform onto (prebuilt) supports. As part of the latter's effort pins are dropped into the platform and supports as each is adjusted.

Second idea involves setting up two platforms. On the first you set up a roller coaster track on each side that on each side bends in a "J" shape. (Using the track that they use for horse barn doors or light rail). The second platform rests on track of the first. This platform starts in the horizontal position resting, as the show goes on the upper platform is ratched up by 3 stage hands behind it with come-alongs. After each ratchet notch, two wedge stops are moved into place at the front of the platform, so that the thing doesn't come down (launching actors into the audience).

In either case restraint ought to be used to not attempt nearly 90 degrees of elevation angle. 45 degrees might not be attained safely, so judgement is required.

A third idea is a variation of the original idea that you had. But instead of putting one side of the platform at 3' and a lift under the other. Start the platform at 4' flat and lower one side, thus when the show is the most dangerous for actor movement because of the tilt, its the most safe in terms of distance to fall. This also makes the adjustment not require a hydraulic lift or fork lift. During the show you are cranking the height down, not up with the actors on it. After the show when the platform is not loaded, you are raising it. To do this, you can get cheaper ceiling type jacks or car jacks that screw down to lower positions, instead of ratcheting down in a noticeable movement. This approach also makes sinking look more realistic because the boat does go down, instead of up.

Again be careful, you need a way to adjust the jacks without a stage hand under the platform or even a stage hand's hand under the platform--I'd prefer to have the adjustments made from a hidden position upstage.

_____________

http://www.studio-productions-inc.com
1-800-359-2964

The theater scrim people

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jungle16jim
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Posted: 9/05/08 at 12:27pm

Hey all,

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm really looking into that air bag idea.

But another idea has come along that we're pursuing and it might be helpful to others of you.

We're contacting several engineering departments at local universities (would work for high school also) and hosting an SOS competition (Sink Our Ship). The students are just working on the tilting platform part, and we're giving a cash prize of $200 for the winning design (donated by a board member).

But here's the cool part. This opens us up to ask for grant money for the whole project--the onstage budget. Our grant writer was excited about this as a science meets art project. Our PR lady was excited about it as great publicity. Plus, now we're going to local engineering firms and asking for someone to sit in on the judging panel and the funds to implement the winning design. Great PR for them too, right?

The only bad news is the timing. The grant does not get announced until 2 months before the show opens, so we won't know if we can rely on that so I've still got to come up with a design for that part on my own. Can do. But I thought I'd pass this bit of financial advice on to other companies looking for show funding.

Jim

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
jungle16jim Walk-On Joined: 7/16/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: Titanic... SOS Posted: 7/17/08 at 4:43pm
	I fought like crazy to not do Titanic, but got overruled. Now, I've got to design the set. Our entire onstage budget is $1500 and the costumes alone are quite difficult and pricey. The director does not want to tilt the platform, but in my mind, the set is the title character and if the boat does not sink, the audience will feel jipped. I've got that non-tilting option to fall back on, but am determined to do something. Another option if worse comes to worse--have a false facade on the front of the platform and tilt that. I couldn't have actors up there, but at least it's something--if worst comes to worst. Parameters: The stage is 28ft wide, we cannot screw into it or attach to any wall, and the stage door is a 6ft double door. The fly space is unusable for anything with much weight. Thoughts: build a 16x8 platform in the space (it wouldn't fit through the door otherwise. Use 4 2x12x16s to support it with some 2x4 bracing thrown in too. Rest one end on a VERY solid platform about 3ft off the ground on one end and rest the other side on a hydraulic lift. Problems: How to attach the lift to the platform in a way that will still be safe as the angle changes. (My first thought was a small forklift but then I had weight/noise issues). I have no idea what to ask for or how much weight I'm talking about for the lift. I've suggested casting only very small actors, but that's fallen on deaf ears. Help! I've got until the winter to solve these issues, but am trying to think ahead. I've got Oliver! and Sound of Music before that. How do I do this to myself? Jim

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TimW Star Joined: 8/10/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 83	Posted: 7/17/08 at 10:11pm
	How about having the bow or stern attached to your fly and lifting from there. Have the ship collapse for the sinking, thinking 2 foot panels that slide behind each other. Then lower to the stage floor. Don't know if this helps any, but here it is.
	IP Logged

pdavis69 Celebrity Joined: 3/26/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 437	Posted: 7/18/08 at 8:53am
	Big suggestion! Let someone else do the set this time.
	Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse
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Topper Celebrity Joined: 1/27/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 543	Posted: 7/18/08 at 11:55am
	Have the entire audience tilt their heads to one side simultaneously? Sorry ... I got nuthin'.
	"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone
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jcf0mtr Walk-On Joined: 7/07/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 7/21/08 at 12:55pm
	Here's a thought... Build you deck on a platform that is supported in NEAR the middle on a triangular frame. Think of a see-saw. Make sure one end (the longer of the two), is significantly heaver than the end that goes up so the see-saw will not go down when the cast is on the high end of the deck. On the heavy end,attach a second triangular frame that looks like a saw horse, with one point to the triangle attached to the platform so it can pivot, the second point of the triangle - attach heavy duty castors that can roll backword under the platform, and a third point will have a long timber attached to is behind the set. As you lift the timber, the castors will roll under the set until the third point of the triangle touches ground. It will not have to be attached to the floor.
	Joe Pembroke Pines Theatre of the Performing Arts
	IP Logged

vickifrank Celebrity Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332	Posted: 7/21/08 at 1:53pm
	I had a customer who was an engineer who had just done Titanic with a ship that sinks (deck tilted to nearly 90 degrees) by getting two truck sized air bags from a junk yard. He then rigged a pneumatic system down the hall and behind closed doors --to hide the sound of the air compressors-- that during the show he used to slowly inflated the air bags. He claimed total success, but of course someone trying to duplicate his effort would need to carefully evaluate their own design for safety.
	_____________ http://www.studio-productions-inc.com 1-800-359-2964 The theater scrim people
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MartyW Celebrity Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 555	Posted: 7/21/08 at 4:49pm
	Now thats cool
	Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.."
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Sweeney Walk-On Joined: 3/13/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 7/22/08 at 10:08am
	I know that Bay City Players did Titanic this year in Michigan. 989-893-5555 The best part honestly was the tilting of the ship they had created. Didn't care to much for the music honestly or the so-so acting, but the sinking was fantastic. Couldn't hurt to call them, and get a hold of their set designer and get some thoughts from someone who just did the show. Good Luck. Sweeney
	IP Logged

vickifrank Celebrity Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332	Posted: 7/22/08 at 2:38pm
	I do have two low tech ideas. Take your simple 8' x 16' platform and tilt it over a roller that is a fulcrum. I'd prefer to hinge the downstage part of the platform to the stage. Then tilting the platform requires two steps (and four stage hands). The first two stage hands move the roller downstage a predetermined amount. The upstage hands use leverage to lift and prop the upstage part of the platform onto (prebuilt) supports. As part of the latter's effort pins are dropped into the platform and supports as each is adjusted. Second idea involves setting up two platforms. On the first you set up a roller coaster track on each side that on each side bends in a "J" shape. (Using the track that they use for horse barn doors or light rail). The second platform rests on track of the first. This platform starts in the horizontal position resting, as the show goes on the upper platform is ratched up by 3 stage hands behind it with come-alongs. After each ratchet notch, two wedge stops are moved into place at the front of the platform, so that the thing doesn't come down (launching actors into the audience). In either case restraint ought to be used to not attempt nearly 90 degrees of elevation angle. 45 degrees might not be attained safely, so judgement is required. A third idea is a variation of the original idea that you had. But instead of putting one side of the platform at 3' and a lift under the other. Start the platform at 4' flat and lower one side, thus when the show is the most dangerous for actor movement because of the tilt, its the most safe in terms of distance to fall. This also makes the adjustment not require a hydraulic lift or fork lift. During the show you are cranking the height down, not up with the actors on it. After the show when the platform is not loaded, you are raising it. To do this, you can get cheaper ceiling type jacks or car jacks that screw down to lower positions, instead of ratcheting down in a noticeable movement. This approach also makes sinking look more realistic because the boat does go down, instead of up. Again be careful, you need a way to adjust the jacks without a stage hand under the platform or even a stage hand's hand under the platform--I'd prefer to have the adjustments made from a hidden position upstage.
	_____________ http://www.studio-productions-inc.com 1-800-359-2964 The theater scrim people
	IP Logged

jungle16jim Walk-On Joined: 7/16/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 9/05/08 at 12:27pm
	Hey all, Thanks for your suggestions. I'm really looking into that air bag idea. But another idea has come along that we're pursuing and it might be helpful to others of you. We're contacting several engineering departments at local universities (would work for high school also) and hosting an SOS competition (Sink Our Ship). The students are just working on the tilting platform part, and we're giving a cash prize of $200 for the winning design (donated by a board member). But here's the cool part. This opens us up to ask for grant money for the whole project--the onstage budget. Our grant writer was excited about this as a science meets art project. Our PR lady was excited about it as great publicity. Plus, now we're going to local engineering firms and asking for someone to sit in on the judging panel and the funds to implement the winning design. Great PR for them too, right? The only bad news is the timing. The grant does not get announced until 2 months before the show opens, so we won't know if we can rely on that so I've still got to come up with a design for that part on my own. Can do. But I thought I'd pass this bit of financial advice on to other companies looking for show funding. Jim
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Topic: Titanic... SOS( Topic Closed)
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