Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: changing profanity

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red diva
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Posted: 2/01/07 at 3:59pm

Point one: do the edgier plays as a Second Stage production, as we do at our theatre. I'm not suggesting that we force these types of works down the throats of our general patrons. I never said that they "must" view these works.

Point two: include in your advertising and publicity that the show contains "adult" language and situations, as we do.

Point three: audience members then can decide whether or not to see the show. No one is forcing them to!

"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"

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Juror #3
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Posted: 2/01/07 at 5:48pm

Forgive me if I mention some things here that are "ancient" by green room standards. I haven't had an opportunity to read or write anything in over two weeks. Anyway, the discussion about "educating" the audience or "stretching" the actor being some sort of euphemism for using profanity in a play struck me as pretty funny. In the world of comment today, the operating notion is to link everything to either being conservative or liberal, as if one is always, or usually always, superior to the other. The radio/TV talking heads are the ones we can thank for this, as is our prediliction for linking everything evil, bad, nasty and sinister to the other side, while when those on our side do or say the same things, we are only defending our God-given rights in the face of "they", "them", "those" who would infect our minds, our souls, and our very beings with their lies and putrid infections of what they call the truth . . . I take back the above; this is not "funny"; it is sad.

To avoid edgy plays because we assume our audiences don't want to see or hear them is as foolish as assuming our audiences need to be exposed to the controversial to open their eyes to the grim realities of this world. Damn Rush Limbaugh, Al Franken, Ann Coulter, and (quick someone fill in the name of a liberal woman here).

Truth is, you can never be sure what audiences will react favorably or unfavorably to, what they will condemn as obscene or praise as creative. When people walk out on "Auntie Mame" because the show mentions that children go nude at a progressive school in the 1920s or are riveted by the moral agonies and ambivalence suffered by the characters in "Agnes of God," it is safe to say any play chosen by community theatre is a gamble with very risky odds. One person's notion of merit is another's notion of filth. Art, and that is what we are engaged in like it or not, is to each person something different. Some covet El Greco; others, Elvis on black velvet. All we can do is choose what we feel are plays that meet the standard of "quality." We can, of course, argue what "quality" means till we are blue in the face, but that doesn't matter. The shared choosing is what does matter. Jefferson didn't define "equality", "life", "liberty" and "pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration of Independence because he knew if he tried, the document would never have gotten written or approved by the Continental Congress. The discussion of the meaning of abstract words goes on forever, but groups have to make decisions in the here and now. Make them when it is time to and argue later. The rest of us want to get home in time to watch Law and Order at ten.

Juror #3

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jdlewallen
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Posted: 2/01/07 at 7:11pm

Reminds me of the great line that it's community theatre until someone is offended.....and THEN it is ART!!!

LOL

Seriously, though...I think another aspect of this whole issue is
1. is the language (or whatever controversial content) "appropriate" to the situation, story, etc, or is it just there for shock value? I admit there are cases of the latter, but much of the time, especially in a quality show, it should fit, and

2. IF it "fits" into the storyline and your cast does a good job of selling the show and drawing the audience in, most of them will hardly blink twice when it hits.

On a personal level, we just finished a run of "Alone Together", which has a few choice "colorful metaphors" thrown in, including one scene where the female lead drops a triple F-bomb.... Being in a modestly-sized community in West Texas, I was honestly a bit concerned about it (including my own "S---"s and "GD"s), but our cast had a pretty solid chemistry, especially the two leads, and when we hit that point in the show, the audience's reaction seemed to be more concern over what the other characters' reactions were going to be!! The local paper's reviewer even stated that it did have some adult language, but it fit within the situations shown and was entirely appropriate!

"Every theatre is an insane asylum..." ---Franz Schalk (1863-1931)

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John Luzaich
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Posted: 2/28/08 at 5:20pm

I'm pretty sure that most community theatres have changed words in the plays they produce. Most change G-- Damn to Damn, Sh-t to crap, F--k to a number of different words.

I had a director tell me long ago that "it's not our work to change. The author wrote it that way and that was their intent. Who am I to change Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman because I don't think it will go over well? Miller won the Drama Critics Circle, Pulitzer and Tony Award for that play. If you don't want to use his language, pick another play".

(I paraphrased somewhat, that was the gist of what she said).

I agree with that.

Lee Strasberg always said "If it's not on the page, it's not on the stage".

(PS, before you change any language in a play, go back to older posts on this forum by Craig from Dramatists Play Service around 10/06 & 11/06. Many, many, many great comments from people under this subject here. I actually sat and read through all of them!)

John
cfct@cfu.net
http://www.osterregent.org
http://www.facebook.com/osterregent

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Amos Hart
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Posted: 6/26/08 at 12:28pm

Ok... so you want to know what the cost would be for the Everybody Does It act of changing the words? This is from a news article about yesterday's cancellation of a production of Ragtime because the park district involved didn't bother to check out the show and canceled it two weeks before opening because a show about racism uses the word "nigger".

***************

Grisamore said the district bought the rights to the show in January, but no one involved in the process apparently had seen the show all the way through. As a result, concerns about the language were not relayed to administrators until more recently.

Revising the show's language without permission would have subjected the district to fines of up to $150,000 per word per use, Grisamore said.

***************

Full article here:

http://www.pioneerlocal.com/wilmette/news/1025453,wi-cancel-062508-s1.article

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pdavis69
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Posted: 6/26/08 at 1:53pm

"Revising the show's language without permission would have subjected the district to fines of up to $150,000 per word per use, Grisamore said."

The artical is very misleading. "Would have subjected" properly should be "could have". You make it sound like a garauntee of prosecution and it is not.

Patrick L. Davis
Fort Findlay Playhouse

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MartyW
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Posted: 6/26/08 at 2:23pm

Again, why, why, why do we keep shooting this horse.. the darn things dead already.. Its wrong, you dont like dont do it, if you change it, you may get caught, if you do you may wish you didnt change it... 65 vs 67

Truley, is there anyone out there who really thinks its not against the law.

Is there anyone out there who truley thinks it isnt done?

Its a moral issue, just like many crimes that don't often get caught and prosecuted.. You need to decide, but remember, as pages and pages and pages of posts on this subject have stated, no matter what your rational, its still wrong... (and yet folks do)

Hoy!

Marty W

"Till next we trod the boards.."

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B-M-D
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Posted: 6/26/08 at 4:04pm

Guess I'm smoked out again as PDavis would say. Marty's right. People get away with murder, embezelment and stealing your laundry from the dryer. Sorry Marty.....just one more shot to this horse.....maybe it'll stay dead this time. Geez 14 pages of posts and you'd think it couldn't get up from all the weight.

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."

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Directing
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Directing

Author	Message
red diva Celebrity Joined: 5/15/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 199	Posted: 2/01/07 at 3:59pm
	Point one: do the edgier plays as a Second Stage production, as we do at our theatre. I'm not suggesting that we force these types of works down the throats of our general patrons. I never said that they "must" view these works. Point two: include in your advertising and publicity that the show contains "adult" language and situations, as we do. Point three: audience members then can decide whether or not to see the show. No one is forcing them to!
	"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"
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Juror #3 Lead Joined: 9/28/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 31	Posted: 2/01/07 at 5:48pm
	Forgive me if I mention some things here that are "ancient" by green room standards. I haven't had an opportunity to read or write anything in over two weeks. Anyway, the discussion about "educating" the audience or "stretching" the actor being some sort of euphemism for using profanity in a play struck me as pretty funny. In the world of comment today, the operating notion is to link everything to either being conservative or liberal, as if one is always, or usually always, superior to the other. The radio/TV talking heads are the ones we can thank for this, as is our prediliction for linking everything evil, bad, nasty and sinister to the other side, while when those on our side do or say the same things, we are only defending our God-given rights in the face of "they", "them", "those" who would infect our minds, our souls, and our very beings with their lies and putrid infections of what they call the truth . . . I take back the above; this is not "funny"; it is sad. To avoid edgy plays because we assume our audiences don't want to see or hear them is as foolish as assuming our audiences need to be exposed to the controversial to open their eyes to the grim realities of this world. Damn Rush Limbaugh, Al Franken, Ann Coulter, and (quick someone fill in the name of a liberal woman here). Truth is, you can never be sure what audiences will react favorably or unfavorably to, what they will condemn as obscene or praise as creative. When people walk out on "Auntie Mame" because the show mentions that children go nude at a progressive school in the 1920s or are riveted by the moral agonies and ambivalence suffered by the characters in "Agnes of God," it is safe to say any play chosen by community theatre is a gamble with very risky odds. One person's notion of merit is another's notion of filth. Art, and that is what we are engaged in like it or not, is to each person something different. Some covet El Greco; others, Elvis on black velvet. All we can do is choose what we feel are plays that meet the standard of "quality." We can, of course, argue what "quality" means till we are blue in the face, but that doesn't matter. The shared choosing is what does matter. Jefferson didn't define "equality", "life", "liberty" and "pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration of Independence because he knew if he tried, the document would never have gotten written or approved by the Continental Congress. The discussion of the meaning of abstract words goes on forever, but groups have to make decisions in the here and now. Make them when it is time to and argue later. The rest of us want to get home in time to watch Law and Order at ten.
	Juror #3
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jdlewallen Player Joined: 1/11/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 18	Posted: 2/01/07 at 7:11pm
	Reminds me of the great line that it's community theatre until someone is offended.....and THEN it is ART!!! Seriously, though...I think another aspect of this whole issue is 1. is the language (or whatever controversial content) "appropriate" to the situation, story, etc, or is it just there for shock value? I admit there are cases of the latter, but much of the time, especially in a quality show, it should fit, and 2. IF it "fits" into the storyline and your cast does a good job of selling the show and drawing the audience in, most of them will hardly blink twice when it hits. On a personal level, we just finished a run of "Alone Together", which has a few choice "colorful metaphors" thrown in, including one scene where the female lead drops a triple F-bomb.... Being in a modestly-sized community in West Texas, I was honestly a bit concerned about it (including my own "S---"s and "GD"s), but our cast had a pretty solid chemistry, especially the two leads, and when we hit that point in the show, the audience's reaction seemed to be more concern over what the other characters' reactions were going to be!! The local paper's reviewer even stated that it did have some adult language, but it fit within the situations shown and was entirely appropriate!
	"Every theatre is an insane asylum..." ---Franz Schalk (1863-1931)
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John Luzaich Celebrity Joined: 2/24/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 174	Posted: 2/28/08 at 5:20pm
	I'm pretty sure that most community theatres have changed words in the plays they produce. Most change G-- Damn to Damn, Sh-t to crap, F--k to a number of different words. I had a director tell me long ago that "it's not our work to change. The author wrote it that way and that was their intent. Who am I to change Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman because I don't think it will go over well? Miller won the Drama Critics Circle, Pulitzer and Tony Award for that play. If you don't want to use his language, pick another play". (I paraphrased somewhat, that was the gist of what she said). I agree with that. Lee Strasberg always said "If it's not on the page, it's not on the stage". (PS, before you change any language in a play, go back to older posts on this forum by Craig from Dramatists Play Service around 10/06 & 11/06. Many, many, many great comments from people under this subject here. I actually sat and read through all of them!)
	John cfct@cfu.net http://www.osterregent.org http://www.facebook.com/osterregent
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Amos Hart Lead Joined: 12/15/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36	Posted: 6/26/08 at 12:28pm
	Ok... so you want to know what the cost would be for the Everybody Does It act of changing the words? This is from a news article about yesterday's cancellation of a production of *Ragtime* because the park district involved didn't bother to check out the show and canceled it two weeks before opening because a show about racism uses the word "nigger". ************* Grisamore said the district bought the rights to the show in January, but no one involved in the process apparently had seen the show all the way through. As a result, concerns about the language were not relayed to administrators until more recently. Revising the show's language without permission would have subjected the district to fines of up to $150,000 per word per use, Grisamore said. ************* Full article here: http://www.pioneerlocal.com/wilmette/news/1025453,wi-cancel-062508-s1.article
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pdavis69 Celebrity Joined: 3/26/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 437	Posted: 6/26/08 at 1:53pm
	"Revising the show's language without permission would have subjected the district to fines of up to $150,000 per word per use, Grisamore said." The artical is very misleading. "Would have subjected" properly should be "could have". You make it sound like a garauntee of prosecution and it is not.
	Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse
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MartyW Celebrity Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 555	Posted: 6/26/08 at 2:23pm
	Again, why, why, why do we keep shooting this horse.. the darn things dead already.. Its wrong, you dont like dont do it, if you change it, you may get caught, if you do you may wish you didnt change it... 65 vs 67 Truley, is there anyone out there who really thinks its not against the law. Is there anyone out there who truley thinks it isnt done? Its a moral issue, just like many crimes that don't often get caught and prosecuted.. You need to decide, but remember, as pages and pages and pages of posts on this subject have stated, no matter what your rational, its still wrong... (and yet folks do) Hoy!
	Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.."
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B-M-D Celebrity Joined: 11/03/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 346	Posted: 6/26/08 at 4:04pm
	Guess I'm smoked out again as PDavis would say. Marty's right. People get away with murder, embezelment and stealing your laundry from the dryer. Sorry Marty.....just one more shot to this horse.....maybe it'll stay dead this time. Geez 14 pages of posts and you'd think it couldn't get up from all the weight.
	BD "Dying is easy, comedy is hard."
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Topic: changing profanity( Topic Closed)
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