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Topic: Set designer and the director( Topic Closed) | |
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GoldCanyonLady
Celebrity Joined: 2/05/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 172 |
Topic: Set designer and the director Posted: 5/27/08 at 8:43pm |
My only experience with all facets of play production (since high school which was a long time ago) is the theater in which I am director. What is the proper working relationship between the set designer and the director? In other words does the set designer design what he envisions for the play or does he/she bow to the wishes of the director? I have the same question in regard to the set decorator. How does that usually go?
Thanks in advance Barb |
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Barb Hofmeister,
MountainBrook Village Players, Gold Canyon, Arizona. |
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sconjott
Lead Joined: 5/24/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 35 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 12:40am |
I've never seen it written in stone, but I've seen this from 3 standpoints Director, Designer, & Carpenter. I approach it like this. Designer conceptualizes and rough designs the set. Then the Designer collaborates with Director with renderings or model mock-ups of their ideas. Director gives his/her take on the design and specifically adresses the NEEDS of the set based on the needs of the show, blocking, etc. The Carpenter should be in on this as well, to say whether or not it's possible to construct the set as designed or dictated by necessity. Then the designer, if necessary, goes back and makes changes to accomodate needs of the Director and the abilities of the carpenter. Finally the Director gives the OK and the Carpenter assures the Director that it's "easy as pie", and you're off to the races. That's how it should go, with just a few variations on when the Designer and Director first get together. Also, you could not go wrong to include the SM in these production meetings.
Essentially, it's a collaborative relationship. You need to be able to trust your designer's vision, just as your actors trust your vision as the director. But, if you see something you don't like don't be afraid to make suggestions, the same way I'm sure some of your actors would do with you.
Here's the alternative method ( I actually saw this. I was a cast member and carpenter for the show, not THE carpenter mentioned).
Director and desinger never meet. Designer and carpenter get together to go over the design. Afterward, Carpenter talks about the sanity and sexual orientation of the Designer with colleagues and builds whatever they think is easiest and cheapest, keeping to the design as "close" as possible. Meanwhile, during rehearsals the Director makes notes on the progress of the set and tells the designer "we need to make some changes". So, the next day, the Designer stops in to see what's going on and discovers that the carpenter should stick to paint by numbers coloring books. After exchanging a few pleasantries, such as, "WHAT have you done you MORON!?!" (which is the nicest "Pleasanty" you're likely to hear). Finally, once the Designer gets a grip (this could take several days), the designer, director, and carpenter finally get together and argue about what HAS to happen, what CAN happen, and HOW they're going to make it look good... in 3 days.
I really, REALLY reccomend the first method.
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There are NO small roles, only small actors...
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pdavis69
Celebrity Joined: 3/26/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 437 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 7:53am |
When I direct a show, I have an easy solution to the whole problem. I design and am lead builder on all my own shows.
When I am not the director and am in one of the other two positions, I do my best to follow along with the director's best wishes. There will be times when I have to tell a director "that's simply not going to happen." I have over stepped as builder and built what I wanted and dealt with the fall out later (not pleasant).
It is my opinion the Director is the molder of the show and needs to have his finger in as many pots as possible (but then I am a bit of a control freak).
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Patrick L. Davis
Fort Findlay Playhouse |
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Linda S
Celebrity Joined: 4/16/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 312 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 9:00am |
The proper relationship is collaborative, but someone has to to be in charge of the overall vision. That person is usually the director. I've seen it be the producer, but rarely. If no one is in charge of the overall vision you end up with a incohesive mess.That being said, it is very important that everyone be part of the process. I meet repeatedly with all my designers :set, lights, costumes, props, set dresser, and anyone else I can think of. I include the stage manager and produce. If the builder can be there all the better. I love the level headed builder that says, "Good idea, but it won't stand up!" We meet individually and at production meetings at least 3 times before I even cast the show. I have an overall vision for the show and everyone throws their ideas into the ring. We tweak as we go along. I make sure that everyone feels like they can be open about what will work and what will not. For the show I am working on right I just called in the set designer to make modifications to the set design after working with the choreographer. Our standard line is that it is much easier to make changes on paper. Thank goodness we don't start building until Saturday.
My favorite are the designers that ask me questions. I worked with this new young light designer for my last show. He asked me questions about my feelings and emotions for the play. What he did for a light design reflected how I saw the play in an emotional way. I ended up with show that looked the way I felt about the show. Now that was awesome!
I just watched a show come together in which no one had a handle on any part of the design. Not only did that reflect on the stage, but everyone left the experience feeling hurt and unappreciated. The show barely got on it's feet because everyone was working at cross purposes.
I agree with Patrick "the Director is the molder of the show and needs to have his finger in as many pots as possible. . ." I am a bit of a control freak too. It seems to go with the territory.
Linda
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MartyW
Celebrity Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 555 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 9:16am |
Like Patrick said.... "ditto"
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Marty W
"Till next we trod the boards.." |
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Topper
Celebrity Joined: 1/27/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 543 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 11:59am |
The Set Designer usually bases their designs on an initial production meeting with the Director, who would likely use vague terms such as "I want it dark and moody" or "I want it surreal and fantastic" or "I want it authentic and gritty" etc, etc.
Or the Director might have a concept in mind and will say "I need a door here, a stairway here, a window seat here, and this, that and the other thing." Likewise the Director will mention (or the Designer will ask about) certain neccessities -- placement of doors (where & how many), platforms, scene changes, etc. Using these notes, the Designer conceptualizes the Director's ideas and creates a design with either sketches or models BEFORE rehearsals begin. No construction should begin until the Direcor gives final approval. Sometimes, if the script involves many changes of scene, or the concept is less literal, then the design of the set will dictate the Director's blocking. ("We have an arch here, let's use it") For example: I was directing a production of George M. Cohan's "The Tavern" which is a comic-melodrama, but also has an air of mystery. My concern was that the set would be "too cartoon-ish" and I specified I wanted the set to look authentic for the period. The designer created a beautiful scale model with stucco walls, an oak bar, rough-hewn wooden beams and copper lanterns which was exactly what I was looking for -- except for one minor problem: there was no fireplace. In the script, it's mentioned at least a dozen times "come sit by the fire" or "oh, what a lovely fire" etc. etc. When I revealed this omission to the designer, he was of course mortified. "Where would you like it?" he asked. "Somewhere downstage right" I replied. His next rendition (a day later!) included a magnifcent fireplace with a copper-patinated hood and a stone hearth, stage right. The Designer's placement of the fireplace, the bar, the tables & chairs, the front door, etc, helped me create traffic patterns for the blocking of the action. The set was not only lovely to look at, but functioned beautifully. In short, the Director needs to be VERY familiar with needs of the script, while the Designer needs to be EXTREMELY familiar with the limits of the stage. Finding a common ground between these two is what makes the process collaborative. |
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"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone
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GoldCanyonLady
Celebrity Joined: 2/05/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 172 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 12:48pm |
Thank you all so much. That is what I have been doing and we have had the same set designer since our theatre started in 2003. We only do one play a year and this is a senior community so this spring before our set designer left for the north country I met with the designer and he gave me his idea. He wanted to do something really elaborate for an office set. When I looked at it I told him that wouldn't because of various things. I wished he had read the play but didn't say that. He didn't know about the murder and the closet. Anyway I showed him that we just needed three doors and one big window and where. A few weeks later he said he wouldn't do it this year because it wasn't exciting enough. Now we have to find a new designer which isn't easy in our community of 1600 homes. After he decided not to do the design, I thought maybe I had done something wrong. I don't think I had now. We had worked well before Thanks a bunch.
Barb |
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Barb Hofmeister,
MountainBrook Village Players, Gold Canyon, Arizona. |
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sconjott
Lead Joined: 5/24/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 35 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 3:38pm |
You didn't do anything wrong. Designers can be very fickle sometimes and moody or touchy at others.
Why not set yourself down with pencil and graph paper and see what you can knock together. As long as you keep it to a scale your carpenter should have little or no problem banging it out for you.
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There are NO small roles, only small actors...
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mary051756
Lead Joined: 1/31/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 47 |
Posted: 5/28/08 at 6:16pm |
I wish I could find a set designer that would take the initiative to draft up something tat we could review together! I find that I, as director/producer, end up doing the conceptualizing and then presenting it to the set designer.
Having said that, I do work with children, and while I have been trying to grow a CT in my area - it is a very slow process! I don't have the all of the necessary traditional roles in place - so I beg, borrow and steal from whoever walks through the door and happens to look my way - god forbid they ask if I need help (the poor things) so I find myself having to maintain all of the key roles - director, set design, lighting, props, construction, etc.
Enough whining - I think if you have people in those roles, and are buidling something, you should try to build the support staff you would want to work with. For the most part, people will rise to the expectation you set for them.
Good luck!
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“To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” EMERSON
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TonyDi
Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325 |
Posted: 5/29/08 at 8:04am |
This is a very interesting subject to say the least. I guess it's different in everyone's individual world - while similar through all worlds. In my situation, I've worked mostly with 3 - 4 set designers in the 20 years I worked with the company I worked for - actually 5 if I consider myself. But 3 of the set designers were excellent to work with and I ALWAYS TRUSTED them to first - give me what I asked for after having read the script and analyzed the actual NEEDS of the show and secondly, they've often gone above and beyond in many cases doing things I didn't ask for but were such great ideas and cool things to do that I could NOT say no to them. Two of the people of course, were IATSE guys, one who worked at the Opera House here and the convention center, working with some of the Broadway touring shows that come through - and the other guy was the manager of the stage crew, etc. at the Opera House. SO I was ALWAYS lucky to have THOSE two at least who would read the script as well, come up with COLLABORATIVE ideas and then make it happen often as I said, doing more than I asked for which did nothing but make it ever so much better.
The third designer I worked with almost has a doctorate degree in design for theater so I always had good luck there. ALL THREE of these people always came up with exceptional ideas to enhance what I wanted when I could and would have settled for much easier sets to build - but not only could they design them, but they also BUILT them too. And the guy who ran the Opera House was ALSO their resident IATSE lighting designer as was the other guy a lighting designer too. SO I had it made. I TRUSTED these people - all of them. And I allowed them the freedom to "go for it". I even asked ONE of the designers if he could fly SNOOPY'S dog house for ChazBrown. At first he looked at me like I was insane and I laughed it off. He got the bug and we had a dog house that would remotely "lift off" and tilt to "flying" angle and with the appropriate sound cues, it was a major HIT with the audiences. Then upon "landing" it would reverse and settle back to it's normal state. VERY cool. But I asked, at first he rejected it as impossible, but then like all creative people like him, he couldn't let it rest and NOT do it. It was a challenge to HIM for HIMSELF and he came up with the way to do it and it was amazing.
I had ONE set designer who's husband owned a cabinet building shop and who's brother-in-law builds houses in the area. Since we had a major POSH NEW YORK art dealer's apartment to create......oh, yeah, she was an interior designer and "borrowed" $50,000 worth of art work to hang and have on the set......well need I say how THAT set turned out? Complete with CURVED fireplace and chimney and white sofa!!! YIKES!!! And along with 1000's of dollars worth of antiques....well I admit it WAS a bit overkill but with the custom made desk and custom kitchen cabinets that showed on the set.....well it was an amazing site. I trusted HER expertise as well.
So set designers are worth their weight in gold when you can find a good one. There HAVE been many sets I've had to design AND build myself (with some help). But I learned MY lessons well enough and could come up with the things I needed when I couldn't have the luxury of these people who I always worked with. I was lucky I guess to have great people who were creative and visionary to work with whom I could trust, leave them alone, and KNOW I would end up with hyper-realistic sets that looked as good as any I'd EVER seen, and in turn it not only enhanced what we were able to do, but even drew the occasional APPLAUSE upon the curtain opening because the sets were stunning upon first view.
BUT Barb that doesn't help you. It doesn't count for a thing in your situation when you NEED a good set designer - and have one but who walks out on you because it's not "exciting enough" a show that they'd lend their hand to it. What it boils down to is defining WHAT you ACTUALLY REALLY NEED and then embellish with a bit of icing to make it dramatically beautiful, ugly, depressing, uplifting, colorful, bland, etc, etc whatever adjective you need to enhance what the show calls for. I HOPE you can find someone. ALL it takes is someone who can LOGICALLY design a set that makes sense for the structure of the play taking into account what it's supposed to look like - then making the dressing and the finish work make sense with THAT. As long as you can find the builders who know who to build realizing that there's only one side (usually) that needs to be finished (something I had to learn) then you should come up with something worth seeing and playing on. I even used to finish the back sides of things until someone adamantly told me to stop doing that....asking WHY I did it in the first place??!!! Well they said the audience doesn't see the back side...but I retorted that they may not, but the ACTORS see the back sides. I realized over time, actors get over that easily. I mean just do Noises Off one time (which I did as an actor) and that makes it easier for me to swallow!!!
Anyway good luck. HOPE you find someone who can design something for you that's sensible to build with the builders you have to put the puzzle pieces together.
TonyDi
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