Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Scrim Questions

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Kim L.
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Joined: 2/03/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 86

Topic: Scrim Questions
Posted: 8/30/07 at 8:15am

I am in the middle of designing the set for our fall production but am also casting thought to the spring. We will be producing Pride and Prejudice. In the script we are using, there are "reveals" of the characters, where one character will begin speaking of another to sort of introduce the audience to him. In our theatre, we have a sort of runway with a door downstage left (adjoined to the apron). I was thinking I could put up a scrim in front of the doorway and have the "reveals" be done that way. My questions:

1. I would need to buy a scrim. Is there a cheap immitation fabric I could use? How much would a theatrical srim cost for the dimensions of approx. 14' x 7'?

2. How would I hang the scrim? Would it look okay not being used on the main stage?

Thanks,
Kim

Kim

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Gaafa
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Location: Australia
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Posted: 8/30/07 at 9:30am

Now the 'runway' do you mean a 'vomitorium'?
as far as the scrim goes any net curtain material would work, but it is better woven with natural fibres rather than man made, which won't bounce the lights. You may be better off, just attaching it on a batten at the head & alowing it to dead hang. With a wieghted tail batten pocket, to hold it flat & straight. you might be able to get over 7' wide gauze/net, if not a smaller width & black tatt strip assed to one side, as a masking.
Ensure they focus & set the best 'Y' angle for the FOH wash on the scrim & put up black masking upstage of the vomit door. Any lamp US of the scrim, when the lighting is transposed to US, makes the scrim transparent.
one thing you could do is paint the scrim to copy the vomit door, {Using milk paint [Rosco Idiling Paint] which comes in powdered form, is the best way to go, but can be exspensive} But if is only a few yards of material, cost wise it would be beter just to use ordniary poster or plastic paint [Latex].

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Kim L.
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Joined: 2/03/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 86

Posted: 8/31/07 at 6:14pm

I found something on the web called, "Noseeum." It is a form of mosquito net. I found this stuff on sort of a Halloween Decoration blog. Someone used this stuff extensively as a scrim in a haunted house. Anybody have experience with mosquito net as a scrim? It is very cheap...like $8.00 per yard for a 9 ft. height.

Kim

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Gaafa
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Location: Australia
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Posted: 8/31/07 at 8:08pm

Mossie net may work, I never used it for a scim?
I have used ordinary window sheer net material, Shade cloth which works great on stage, because it comes in up to 3.5 metre [12'] widths which is the usual hieght of most ameatres, cutting the length to suit how wide the stage is.
Scrims are normaly have a sharktooth weave & required transparency is measured by the amount of stiches/inch.
How the effect works is when wash lighting is focused directly on the down stage side, from the 'Y' possition [about a 30 degree angle] the light diffuses the surface area & you can't see thru the scrim, the light bounces across from fibre stich to fibre stich.
When the wash light is cross faded with the upstage lights it becomes transparent.
The best bet with the mossie net is, grab a sample & use a tourch to see how it works in a darkend room.
If you wander in to your local textile shop I'm sure you can buy a suitable continious curtain material far cheaper than $8/yard - metre.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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vickifrank
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Joined: 9/21/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 332

Posted: 9/23/07 at 1:23pm

A Chameleon Scrim finished with grommets and a pocket to be 14' x 7' without flame retardant costs $105. Sharkstooth if you could get it new ought to be 2-3 times that cost, but you may be able to buy cheaper 'used' thru ebay.

A scrim substitute frequently used is cheesecloth. The problem with cheesecloth is that its very hard to make opaque (and no, don't double it--you get a moire effect). That also is true of sharkstooth.

"Would it look Okay not being used on the main stage?" Yes--if you can control the lights. Joe described the lighting well. Its basically a 'what you light is what you see effect'. So if you light from the front at a steep angle and you see the scrim. Turn off that light, and now light the person behind the scrim and you see the person. You need basically three things.

1.) Independant control of the lights --even ambiant light. So don't have a theater exit light behind the scrim. And use a light board.

2.) Ability to mask the light from hitting where you don't want it. This can be curtains, barndoors (flaps on the front of lights) or snoots (coffee can light things on front of lights). Most of this can be done easily with effort.

3.) Ability to focus the lights on the person behind the scrim. Focusing lights is the ability to adjust where the light appears most strongly (like twisting the ring on the front of a flashlight makes the light strong near or far). Its the last quality that most folks using non-stage lights struggle with. Answer is to use stage instruments even though you aren't on the actual stage. Sounds obvious, right? But sometimes that's tougher than you think.

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avcastner
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Joined: 12/21/06
Location: United States
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Posts: 85

Posted: 10/24/07 at 11:38pm

You can try Rose Brand rosebrand.com for scrim material. They have many different types. I would not recommend using scrim for a reveal unless you have very strong lights that can be focused on the scrim for the effect. The placement you have indicated may be a bad spot for lighting. If you use a scrim and don't have enough light on the front to wash it out, it will look like someone standing behind a sheer curtain you would hang on your front room windows.

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
Kim L. Star Joined: 2/03/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 86	Topic: Scrim Questions Posted: 8/30/07 at 8:15am
	I am in the middle of designing the set for our fall production but am also casting thought to the spring. We will be producing Pride and Prejudice. In the script we are using, there are "reveals" of the characters, where one character will begin speaking of another to sort of introduce the audience to him. In our theatre, we have a sort of runway with a door downstage left (adjoined to the apron). I was thinking I could put up a scrim in front of the doorway and have the "reveals" be done that way. My questions: 1. I would need to buy a scrim. Is there a cheap immitation fabric I could use? How much would a theatrical srim cost for the dimensions of approx. 14' x 7'? 2. How would I hang the scrim? Would it look okay not being used on the main stage? Thanks, Kim
	Kim

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Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 8/30/07 at 9:30am
	Now the 'runway' do you mean a 'vomitorium'? as far as the scrim goes any net curtain material would work, but it is better woven with natural fibres rather than man made, which won't bounce the lights. You may be better off, just attaching it on a batten at the head & alowing it to dead hang. With a wieghted tail batten pocket, to hold it flat & straight. you might be able to get over 7' wide gauze/net, if not a smaller width & black tatt strip assed to one side, as a masking. Ensure they focus & set the best 'Y' angle for the FOH wash on the scrim & put up black masking upstage of the vomit door. Any lamp US of the scrim, when the lighting is transposed to US, makes the scrim transparent. one thing you could do is paint the scrim to copy the vomit door, {Using milk paint [Rosco Idiling Paint] which comes in powdered form, is the best way to go, but can be exspensive} But if is only a few yards of material, cost wise it would be beter just to use ordniary poster or plastic paint [Latex].
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Kim L. Star Joined: 2/03/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 86	Posted: 8/31/07 at 6:14pm
	I found something on the web called, "Noseeum." It is a form of mosquito net. I found this stuff on sort of a Halloween Decoration blog. Someone used this stuff extensively as a scrim in a haunted house. Anybody have experience with mosquito net as a scrim? It is very cheap...like $8.00 per yard for a 9 ft. height.
	Kim
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 8/31/07 at 8:08pm
	Mossie net may work, I never used it for a scim? I have used ordinary window sheer net material, Shade cloth which works great on stage, because it comes in up to 3.5 metre [12'] widths which is the usual hieght of most ameatres, cutting the length to suit how wide the stage is. Scrims are normaly have a sharktooth weave & required transparency is measured by the amount of stiches/inch. How the effect works is when wash lighting is focused directly on the down stage side, from the 'Y' possition [about a 30 degree angle] the light diffuses the surface area & you can't see thru the scrim, the light bounces across from fibre stich to fibre stich. When the wash light is cross faded with the upstage lights it becomes transparent. The best bet with the mossie net is, grab a sample & use a tourch to see how it works in a darkend room. If you wander in to your local textile shop I'm sure you can buy a suitable continious curtain material far cheaper than $8/yard - metre.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

vickifrank Celebrity Joined: 9/21/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 332	Posted: 9/23/07 at 1:23pm
	A Chameleon Scrim finished with grommets and a pocket to be 14' x 7' without flame retardant costs $105. Sharkstooth if you could get it new ought to be 2-3 times that cost, but you may be able to buy cheaper 'used' thru ebay. A scrim substitute frequently used is cheesecloth. The problem with cheesecloth is that its very hard to make opaque (and no, don't double it--you get a moire effect). That also is true of sharkstooth. "Would it look Okay not being used on the main stage?" Yes--if you can control the lights. Joe described the lighting well. Its basically a 'what you light is what you see effect'. So if you light from the front at a steep angle and you see the scrim. Turn off that light, and now light the person behind the scrim and you see the person. You need basically three things. 1.) Independant control of the lights --even ambiant light. So don't have a theater exit light behind the scrim. And use a light board. 2.) Ability to mask the light from hitting where you don't want it. This can be curtains, barndoors (flaps on the front of lights) or snoots (coffee can light things on front of lights). Most of this can be done easily with effort. 3.) Ability to focus the lights on the person behind the scrim. Focusing lights is the ability to adjust where the light appears most strongly (like twisting the ring on the front of a flashlight makes the light strong near or far). Its the last quality that most folks using non-stage lights struggle with. Answer is to use stage instruments even though you aren't on the actual stage. Sounds obvious, right? But sometimes that's tougher than you think.
	IP Logged

avcastner Star Joined: 12/21/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 85	Posted: 10/24/07 at 11:38pm
	You can try Rose Brand rosebrand.com for scrim material. They have many different types. I would not recommend using scrim for a reveal unless you have very strong lights that can be focused on the scrim for the effect. The placement you have indicated may be a bad spot for lighting. If you use a scrim and don't have enough light on the front to wash it out, it will look like someone standing behind a sheer curtain you would hang on your front room windows.
	IP Logged

Topic: Scrim Questions( Topic Closed)