To be honest, the totem pole comment was a joke , as well. But there are issues involved here. It is typcial of CTs that choreography is often an afterthought position and that pay usually reflects that, even though a choreographer may log as many (if not more) hours as a stage director in rehearsal with the cast, research, teaching, and creating the movement/staging that is to be applied. I think that choreography is often seen as just the stringing together of dance steps, which can be done by any high school kid taking dance lessons or local studio teacher, but that is not really the case. I’ve seen lots of CTs that this is what the “choreography” amounts to, and I’ve also worked with stage directors that limit the choreographers to just that because they know little about either choreography or dance. But, choreography can and should be more in a fully realized production. We strive for excellence in amateur acting - why not in movement as well (most amateur thespians aren’t trained actors either)?

Choreography is not the only skill in CT at the bottom, so to speak, but of the three positions in a musical that spend the most time working in and outside of rehearsal (stage dir., musical dir., and choreographer), it seems to be the least valued and appreciated. At least in the half-dozen CTs that I have experience with. And again, pay does reflect that (choreographers across the board typically get paid 1/4 if not less of what both stage and musical directors get).

I’d just like to advocate that a) there is more to choreography than just stringing together a few steps here and there, and b) that there are choreographers out there who are working artists and should be paid fairly. Many choreographers work as dancers, teachers and choreographers for a living. The same can rarely be said for those that work as stage directors in the CT environment.

Here, here, Mike.  Here, here!

Originally posted by dancingbarefoot ...of the three positions in a musical that spend the most time working in and outside of rehearsal (stage dir., musical dir., and choreographer), it seems to be the least valued and appreciated...

[QUOTE=Mike Polo]

This is your choice, and I don't have a problem with donating time and money if you can.



I don't think I should be paid more, I think choreographers should be paid more fairly compared to other production positions.



I have no problem with the amount I'm offered at my current theatre - but it is still 1/2 of what both the musical director and stage director get. And if I personally couldn't do something for so little, I'd say no (or ask for more), just like any of the dance jobs that I've been hired to do.



You're right, but lots of theatres have made the dangerous jump to paying those involved. I'm questioning how MOST theatres have chosen to divide their stipends (not just for choreographers- although, other than as a volunteer actor, that's the job I know most intimately)- other jobs like costumers, lighting designers, etc. take away a very small portion of the pie while other positions take the lion's share. No one is making a living, but a few are taking away a lot more than others. I'm not trying to discount what directors do, but is it really worth 5-10 times more than some of these other positions? And if no one is thinking that choreography (for example) is a lesser-than job, why are they paid lesser-than?

If you are in a theatre where there is more balance, congrats, but the theatres I've worked with (including those where I haven't been on the production staff) this inbalance has existed (exception: when the pay for all is $0). And, come to think of it, in my experience the actors have always thanked the director (either with words or a gift) and all other production staff and crew generally go unthanked. Again, just my experience, but I find it hard to believe that my experiences have all been totally unique.

Sorry this has become some sort of debate, but I do think these are things that should be considered if a theatre plans to pay. And I want to stress that I'm happy to do what I do for community theatre. There were times when as a freelance choroegrapher I counted the work I did for CT's part of my income, but I too have donated my expertise when needed and if I could. Community theatres exist because of donation of time, but that's not really the point I've tried to make.

This is what I'm getting at.... I'll bet every one of the production staff does exactly that. But the pay rates that theatres have chosen reflect something different.[/QUOTE]

First let me say that I am a proponent of no one being paid.  After all, community theatre, in my mind, is a volunteer organization.  No pay would  prevent all the hassles about who gets how much and who is "worth" more than the other.

Unfortunately, with exceptions (some of whom are on this board), much of the tech staff both in our theatre and in other theatres I've worked in do not research their areas for the show they are designing for. Thus you end up with basketballs from 2007 with an NBA franchise logo that are supposed to be from 1952 and costumes for the Victorian period that look like 1960's prom dresses. (No, Marty, I'm not referring to Cathy - she's one of  the good ones!)  No research has been done and there is an unwillingness to find ways to adapt modern props and costumes to the period. The response I usually get from these people when I point out the problems is "well, if the audience notices that, they aren't watching the actors".  I often end up altering or replacing inappropriate items on my own.

It sounds like the theatres you work in are lucky to have dedicated techies, willing to do the research and planning.  Other theatres are not that lucky, and in fact often have trouble finding someone willing to do the tech jobs.  When you have someone that will do the job just because no-one else will volunteer, you sometimes end up with careless and slipshod work.

Again, please note:  I am NOT condemning all tech staff in all theatres!  I've been there and done that in just about every area of tech and appreciate the hard work and time investment.  We have some terrific techies at our theatre.  I'm speaking from my own experience in my own theatre!